If you know of another active Wine forum - especially a non-english one - please let us know so we can add it to the list. (Email to dank@kegel.com would do.)
Русский
http://www.wine-forum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44
Tom
P.S
Sorry, the forums at http://www.wine-forum.org/index.php were not popular enough to make this cut, may I ask how many users = popular? The forum has 750+ registered users in just over three months... 1, 2, 5 thousand??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Dan Kegel dank@kegel.com wrote:
Perhaps this will help slake the thirst of those who periodically ask if Wine needs a forum.
2008/2/21 Tom Wickline twickline@gmail.com:
[if] the forums at http://www.wine-forum.org/index.php were not popular enough to make this cut, may I ask how many users = popular?
Well, let's see: Ubuntuforums: Threads: 685,027, Posts: 4,364,352, Members: 509,031 Linuxforums: Threads: 111,640, Posts: 550,654, Members: 149,826 Linuxforen.de: Themen: 238.148, Beiträge: 1.602.009, Benutzer: 70.611 comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine: Threads: 22,816; no idea how many posts or members. wine-forum.org: Threads: 174, Posts: 529, Members: 751
I think you have to grow by about two orders of magnitude to complete. And even then, you'd be fragmenting the user space. I rather doubt the average Ubuntu user, comfortable in his or her Ubuntu forum, will venture afield when there's a wine area right there in the ubuntu forum site. Likewise, users comfortable with the wine-users mailing list are unlikely to switch. etc. By adding a new forum, you're decreasing the quality of support in the existing ones. - Dan
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3949/googlegroupsmozillafirejz8.png
And Google Groups has 738 subscribers :D
There for a second I was feeling rather poorly about the wine-forum site.
So, I suppose the forums I put up are about as destructive as Goggle Groups. Actually 13 Members less destructive.
-Tom
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Dan Kegel dank@kegel.com wrote:
2008/2/21 Tom Wickline twickline@gmail.com:
[if] the forums at http://www.wine-forum.org/index.php were not
popular enough to make this cut, may I ask how many users = popular?
Well, let's see: Ubuntuforums: Threads: 685,027, Posts: 4,364,352, Members: 509,031 Linuxforums: Threads: 111,640, Posts: 550,654, Members: 149,826 Linuxforen.de: Themen: 238.148, Beiträge: 1.602.009, Benutzer: 70.611 comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine: Threads: 22,816; no idea how many posts or members. wine-forum.org: Threads: 174, Posts: 529, Members: 751
I think you have to grow by about two orders of magnitude to complete. And even then, you'd be fragmenting the user space. I rather doubt the average Ubuntu user, comfortable in his or her Ubuntu forum, will venture afield when there's a wine area right there in the ubuntu forum site. Likewise, users comfortable with the wine-users mailing list are unlikely to switch. etc. By adding a new forum, you're decreasing the quality of support in the existing ones.
- Dan
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Tom Wickline twickline@gmail.com wrote:
And Google Groups has 738 subscribers :D
There for a second I was feeling rather poorly about the wine-forum site.
So, I suppose the forums I put up are about as destructive as Goggle Groups.
Nah, the usenet group's been there for over a decade, it's not hurting anybody. (Though it sure would be nice if we had that bidirectional gateway working. It never seems to stay up.)
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Dan Kegel dank@kegel.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Tom Wickline twickline@gmail.com wrote:
And Google Groups has 738 subscribers :D
There for a second I was feeling rather poorly about the wine-forum site.
So, I suppose the forums I put up are about as destructive as Goggle Groups.
Nah, the usenet group's been there for over a decade, it's not hurting anybody. (Though it sure would be nice if we had that bidirectional gateway working. It never seems to stay up.)
So we have about 1400 people in a short period of time that like forums and how no where else to go. I for one hate, despise, loath and in general just don't like google groups. I like the general layout of other web-forums like wine-forum however. All google groups gives us is a gateway to wineusers newsgroup which has been around forever and a day. I propose we make the gateway on wine-forum so it will have a much more sane layout. Then it won't disrupt the existing userbase of fragmented forum usage while adding a valuable service to the community. Evidently an equal number of people prefer the wine-forum to posting on google groups so the only solution I see is to add a news gateway to wine-forum so it can access the same content....
Unless you have the power to make google groups not suck.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
So we have about 1400 people in a short period of time that like forums and how no where else to go. I for one hate, despise, loath and
Sorry let me make that clear. 1400 people that want a forum of some type, wine-forum 700ish or 700ish google groups. How/Have no where else to go...
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
So we have about 1400 people in a short period of time that like forums and how no where else to go. I for one hate, despise, loath and in general just don't like google groups. I like the general layout of other web-forums like wine-forum however. All google groups gives us is a gateway to wineusers newsgroup which has been around forever and a day. I propose we make the gateway on wine-forum so it will have a much more sane layout. Then it won't disrupt the existing userbase of fragmented forum usage while adding a valuable service to the community. ...
Unless you have the power to make google groups not suck.
I like the idea of a bidirectional forum gateway to wine-users. I haven't seen one I actually like yet, but I trust one exists.
If you can explain what it is that makes google groups suck, maybe I can do something about it. Send those comments to me offlist, though. - Dan
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Dan Kegel dank@kegel.com wrote:
can explain what it is that makes google groups suck, maybe I can do something about it. Send those comments to me offlist, though.
I can't think of a way to make it not suck so sending these thoughts here as they relate still to the current discussion about the wine-users gateway...
I think the problem is more inherit in newsgroup design. Like you can view topics in but there is no way to have topics broken in to categories. I guess this is historical as the traditional newsgroup structure would have each group be its own catagory if there was enough demand
example newsgroup structure would be
comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine.general comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine.devel comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine.solaris comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine.ubuntu
etc
but we just have comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine because the demand metric is not high enough to have separate groups for each category. Plus it would make searching a bitch
This is where forums really shine over google groups or a traditional mailing list to forum gateway. I am all for having mailman cross post to a forum category but ideally the forum should be an alternative front end with categories for wine-users and the wine newsgroup.
I don't think it would be any trouble to get Tom's site to have a gateway that pulled wine-users and the newsgroup feeds in read-only. If someone wants to post to those forums they would still have to use traditional means ala mailing list, google groups, but it would provide a unified location for read-only access. Of course if the gateway is turned back on I guess wine-users and the newsgroups are really a single source.
So to recap. Its all about categories for me.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
I think the problem is more inherit in newsgroup design. Like you can view topics in but there is no way to have topics broken in to categories. I guess this is historical as the traditional newsgroup structure would have each group be its own catagory if there was enough demand
Y'know, there isn't as much difference between newsgroups and forums here as you think. One thing that makes a forum look lonely and forsaken is if it has tons of categories with only a post or two in each. Just like a newsgroup that's been prematurely subdivided. - Dan
Dan Kegel wrote:
I like the idea of a bidirectional forum gateway to wine-users. I haven't seen one I actually like yet, but I trust one exists.
On Friday 22 February 2008 02:34:07 pm Jeremy Newman wrote:
$ host forum.winehq.org Host forum.winehq.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
Fixed. Apparently, our slave DNS server was not syncing to the master.
Hans Leidekker wrote:
On Friday 22 February 2008 02:34:07 pm Jeremy Newman wrote:
$ host forum.winehq.org Host forum.winehq.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
I haven't seen one I actually like yet, but I trust one exists.
Very nice work Jeremy. Cool :) (Now I still will have to get something like this to work on my drupal site, but at least no user shall suffer under my disreliability nor lack of a hybrid forum list anymore.) regards, marcel.
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Stephen Gentle lists@stephengentle.com wrote:
I just signed up. Need moderators?
I can moderate if needed. Username - austin987
-Austin
On Saturday February 23 2008 01:37:21 Austin English wrote:
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Stephen Gentle lists@stephengentle.com
wrote:
I just signed up. Need moderators?
I can moderate if needed. Username - austin987
-Austin
Creation of such forum (linked with wine-users mailing list) was the best solution I can imagine! This is really great. BTW, I can help with its moderation too. My username is "L. Rahyen".
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Austin English austinenglish@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Stephen Gentle lists@stephengentle.com wrote:
I just signed up. Need moderators?
I can moderate if needed. Username - austin987
-Austin
phpBB forums actually can get spammed really badly in a short amount of time. Perhaps we should look into requiring administrative approval for new forum members?
(Though it sure would be nice if we had that bidirectional gateway working. It never seems to stay up.)
I tried to bring it up before, but anyways: drupal looks like a good way too go. It's fast, foss, flexible and with these modules http://drupal.org/project/mailman_manager http://drupal.org/project/user_mailman_register http://drupal.org/project/mailhandler http://drupal.org/project/listhandler and a bit of work it will be a perfectly synchronized mailing list - forum hybrid thing mirroring f.e. wine-user in a forum and vice versa. However, these modules have not yet been ported to Drupal 6 yet, also this all still looks a bit hackish. At the moment I have to do some intensive studying for an exam in three weeks, after that I'll try messing with those as I want to use them on my own website, too. When I'm ready with that, I'll report back. Don't hold your breath, it'll take at least another month... regards marcel
I tried to bring it up before, but anyways: drupal looks like a good way too go. It's fast, foss, flexible and with these modules
I did some looking into this myself. Drupal looked interesting, but the solution that seemed simplest and best to me was using a phpbb and a mailman <--> phpbb gateway. So we're experimenting with that at the moment (thanks, Newman :-/).
The plan is to continue fuddling and let some data fill, and then cut it live in a day or so. If we hate it, we can continue looking for a solution...
Cheers,
Jeremy
I did some looking into this myself. Drupal looked interesting, but the solution that seemed simplest and best to me was using a phpbb and a mailman <--> phpbb gateway.
There are more advantages a drupal solution would have, namely a proper issue tracker / project management thing (have a look at http://drupal.org/project/issues). Also there's a CVS deploy module, so maybe in the long run it will be possible to integrate the main winehq.org site, the mailman lists and the bug tracker into one drupal thing (also, phpbb can be integrated.. but the Drupal forum is way leaner and of course can be styled with CSS to be inline with the winehq.org corporate design) However migrating in a single step is probably not very clever, so let's just bring up here if we manage to produce something that works.. I'll report back, too, once I've migrated those modules to drupal 6 and got it to work properly. regards, marcel.
Dan Kegel wrote:
2008/2/21 Tom Wickline twickline@gmail.com:
[if] the forums at http://www.wine-forum.org/index.php were not popular enough to make this cut, may I ask how many users = popular?
Well, let's see: Ubuntuforums: Threads: 685,027, Posts: 4,364,352, Members: 509,031 Linuxforums: Threads: 111,640, Posts: 550,654, Members: 149,826 Linuxforen.de: Themen: 238.148, Beiträge: 1.602.009, Benutzer: 70.611 comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine: Threads: 22,816; no idea how many posts or members. wine-forum.org: Threads: 174, Posts: 529, Members: 751
I think you have to grow by about two orders of magnitude to complete. And even then, you'd be fragmenting the user space. I rather doubt the average Ubuntu user, comfortable in his or her Ubuntu forum, will venture afield when there's a wine area right there in the ubuntu forum site. Likewise, users comfortable with the wine-users mailing list are unlikely to switch. etc. By adding a new forum, you're decreasing the quality of support in the existing ones.
- Dan
Soo... the obvious thing to do is contact all the major Linux forums with Wine sections, explain that we're trying to set up an official forum, and see if they'll lock their Wine sections and redirect members to the official forum.
If they all buy in, great. If not, keep the status quo.
--mmebane
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Austin English -
Dan Kegel -
Hans Leidekker -
Jeremy Newman -
Jeremy White -
L. Rahyen -
Marcel Partap -
Mitchell Mebane -
Stephen Gentle -
Steven Edwards -
Tom Wickline -
Zachary Goldberg