Fixing AppDB once and for all

[Zachary Goldberg]

All,

So it seems to be almost every other day now when somebody mentions
how broken the appdb rating system is.  This "broken-ness" has had
several high level discussions on Wine-Devel.  There have also been
many, many proposed solutions to this problem.

I do not wish to discuss these problems or these solutions in this
thread.  It is time something was done about this.  By done I mean
agreed upon (probably the harder part) then implemented in code and
published to the winehq server(s).

I'de like to arrange an IRC discussion for all those interested in
finalizing an attack plan, and then assigning the responsibility of
doing it to somebody who is capable and has the time (perhaps myself).

Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:

When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday)
Where: #winehackers

If this arbitrary time seems to be poorly chosen for a large number of
people then please propose an alternative well in advance so all are
aware of it.

--Zach

[Louis Lenders]

Zachary Goldberg <zgold <at> bluesata.com> writes:
> All,
>
> So it seems to be almost every other day now when somebody mentions
> how broken the appdb rating system is.  This "broken-ness" has had
> several high level discussions on Wine-Devel.  There have also been
> many, many proposed solutions to this problem.
>
> I do not wish to discuss these problems or these solutions in this
> thread.  It is time something was done about this.  By done I mean
> agreed upon (probably the harder part) then implemented in code and
> published to the winehq server(s).
>
> I'de like to arrange an IRC discussion for all those interested in
> finalizing an attack plan, and then assigning the responsibility of
> doing it to somebody who is capable and has the time (perhaps myself).
>
> Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:
>
> When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday)
> Where: #winehackers

I think this will be a very difficult if not impossible task to accomplish.
If we talk about test results, it's the app maintainer that is responsible
for the correctness of the ratings and test results. What would you want to
do if you think that the ratings for application X are overestimated? 
Remove the maintainer from the application entry in appdb? 
Then you'd have to check yourself for every app, if ratings are correct.

BTW, also the opposite occurs very frequently: applications that are rated 
too low (garbage) whereas they are probably bronze or higher. When users
send in garbage test results, i'm always tempted to try out the app myself
if it has free download. In many cases it appears the application needs 
additional packages like mdac, vbrun or anything. Also many garbage results
come from installing in a busted wineprefix ( just do a winetricks dcom98, 
and you'll get garbage results for apps in many cases), and they run just
 fine in a new ~/.wine

So if someone shouts: "Hey, the app is rated gold, but for me it crashes"
it's not necessarily the "gold-rater" who's wrong.

My conclusion really is, it's very difficult to get the ratings correct, but 
always worth a try of course. What's more important is I think , that the 
appdb is rich source of info on how to get application X or Y running.

Regards

So my conclusion is it will be very difficult to get

[Sparr]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Louis Lenders
 wrote:
> Zachary Goldberg <zgold <at> bluesata.com> writes:
> I think this will be a very difficult if not impossible task to accomplish.
> If we talk about test results, it's the app maintainer that is responsible
> for the correctness of the ratings and test results. What would you want to
> do if you think that the ratings for application X are overestimated?
> Remove the maintainer from the application entry in appdb?
> Then you'd have to check yourself for every app, if ratings are correct.

These problems could be mitigated by making it easier to submit test
results.  Even something as simple as a 5-star "how well does it work
for you" system that any registered user can submit with a single
click.  Yes, the information we get will be less specific, but we will
get a *LOT* more of it.  I would rather know that 1740 people have
gotten a game to work and 400 haven't (and no other information than
that) than to see just just five detailed test results saying
gold/gold/silver/silver/garbage.

[Zachary Goldberg]

2009/2/3 Sparr :
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Louis Lenders
>  wrote:
> > Zachary Goldberg <zgold <at> bluesata.com> writes:
> > I think this will be a very difficult if not impossible task to accomplish.
> > If we talk about test results, it's the app maintainer that is responsible
> > for the correctness of the ratings and test results. What would you want to
> > do if you think that the ratings for application X are overestimated?
> > Remove the maintainer from the application entry in appdb?
> > Then you'd have to check yourself for every app, if ratings are correct.
>
> These problems could be mitigated by making it easier to submit test
> results.  Even something as simple as a 5-star "how well does it work
> for you" system that any registered user can submit with a single
> click.  Yes, the information we get will be less specific, but we will
> get a *LOT* more of it.  I would rather know that 1740 people have
> gotten a game to work and 400 haven't (and no other information than
> that) than to see just just five detailed test results saying
> gold/gold/silver/silver/garbage.

As I mentioned previously this thread's purpose is not to decide how
this is to be done.  Thats what the IRC meeting is for.

We can go on and on about how its best to be done over wine-devel but
unless the people who have a stake in the matter and the ability to do
it sit down and make some hard decisions the talk won't result in
action.

[Scott Ritchie]

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> All,
>
> So it seems to be almost every other day now when somebody mentions
> how broken the appdb rating system is.  This "broken-ness" has had
> several high level discussions on Wine-Devel.  There have also been
> many, many proposed solutions to this problem.
>
> I do not wish to discuss these problems or these solutions in this
> thread.  It is time something was done about this.  By done I mean
> agreed upon (probably the harder part) then implemented in code and
> published to the winehq server(s).
>
> I'de like to arrange an IRC discussion for all those interested in
> finalizing an attack plan, and then assigning the responsibility of
> doing it to somebody who is capable and has the time (perhaps myself).
>
> Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:
>
> When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday)
> Where: #winehackers
>
> If this arbitrary time seems to be poorly chosen for a large number of
> people then please propose an alternative well in advance so all are
> aware of it.
>
> --Zach

Zach, I completely agree with this strong-armed measure.  Let's get it
done. :)

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

[Branan Riley]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Zachary Goldberg  wrote:
> All,
>
> So it seems to be almost every other day now when somebody mentions
> how broken the appdb rating system is.  This "broken-ness" has had
> several high level discussions on Wine-Devel.  There have also been
> many, many proposed solutions to this problem.
>
> I do not wish to discuss these problems or these solutions in this
> thread.  It is time something was done about this.  By done I mean
> agreed upon (probably the harder part) then implemented in code and
> published to the winehq server(s).
>
> I'de like to arrange an IRC discussion for all those interested in
> finalizing an attack plan, and then assigning the responsibility of
> doing it to somebody who is capable and has the time (perhaps myself).
>
> Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:
>
> When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday)
> Where: #winehackers
>
> If this arbitrary time seems to be poorly chosen for a large number of
> people then please propose an alternative well in advance so all are
> aware of it.
>
> --Zach

I have some thoughts on the subject. I'll try to be there

Branan

[Austin English]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Zachary Goldberg  wrote:
> All,
>
> So it seems to be almost every other day now when somebody mentions
> how broken the appdb rating system is.  This "broken-ness" has had
> several high level discussions on Wine-Devel.  There have also been
> many, many proposed solutions to this problem.
>
> I do not wish to discuss these problems or these solutions in this
> thread.  It is time something was done about this.  By done I mean
> agreed upon (probably the harder part) then implemented in code and
> published to the winehq server(s).
>
> I'de like to arrange an IRC discussion for all those interested in
> finalizing an attack plan, and then assigning the responsibility of
> doing it to somebody who is capable and has the time (perhaps myself).
>
> Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:
>
> When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday)
> Where: #winehackers
>
> If this arbitrary time seems to be poorly chosen for a large number of
> people then please propose an alternative well in advance so all are
> aware of it.
>
> --Zach

Thanks for taking the initiative! Count me in.