At 11:35 AM 15/12/2001 -0800, you wrote:
I think that's quite unfair. I have stated that I personally don't care about games, I don't have a single application that even uses DirectX. The only reason I think DirectX is an issue is because I see users complaining that Wine doesn't run their favorite game, and I want Wine to be useful for as many people as possible.
This has nothing to do with license, Transgaming or anything. All that is needed is a developer writing code. If there is none, nothing is written. Before Lionel Ulmer, there was no big DirectX game that could be played under Wine I think. Now Lionel is not contributing anymore - did he say to you privately that this was because of Transgaming ? There are many other top developers who have faded away like he did since I began on Wine, so it could be for many other reasons.
Now, game users can as well subscribe to Transgaming as far as I am concerned. The vast majority of them seem to need professionnal - paid - support anyway.
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You want to use the Gpl as a tool, but I don't see a lot of respect for the philosophy that is behind it.
I must say I'm quite offended by your comments. The only reason I raise the issue is because I want Wine to remain as useful as possible for everybody.
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you are the leader of this project since 8 years : the Gpl already existed when you began to work on Wine. You could have switched the license at any time. I don't remember you ever expressing any interest in Gpl for Wine since 3 years I am following - and I have read also quite a few of your interviews. Looking from the outside, this has more the appearances of a knee-jerk reaction, not the result of a long reflection.
What I find even more disturbing in what you said is the allusion
(when replying to Patrick) to a future tightening of copyright laws, a tendency that is in my opinion directly linked to the idea of copyright, patents, etc being 'intellectual property' assets, and infringers thieves stealing them. You seemed to welcome the additional protection it would give Wine.
Absolutely not, and I don't know how you got this impression. I'd love for copyright law to get back to sanity, but I don't see this happening in the near future. Yes, there are a lot of abuses done in the name of intellectual property these days. Does this mean we have to let people hurt us and do nothing? You seem to think that users rights are important, but how are you going to defend their rights if not by using the only tool that we have, namely copyright law?
No, that not what I was saying. If I am here, that's because I think that having Win32 Api outside of Windows is important. User rights have never got in the figure, since it was always acknowledged that people could take the stuff and turn it proprietary. Now that someone seems to succeed, you want to change the rules.
Transgaming is playing by the existing rules, the rules you have enforced for a long time. If they are hurting you, that's surprising. They are not hurting me, since I have accepted your rules. What you are planning will hurt Transgaming business plan, by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in their business discussions with potential customers. Business plan that they did and implemented in good faith, perfectly conforming to your rules and expecting their stability.
I'd have no objection to Gpl *if* people having invested money in Wine success accept the move without problem. I think you should feel more responsibility towards people investing in Wine, not only responsibility towards the project - in other words you, because you are the Wine project.
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I'm not planning to send anybody to jail, and I find that suggestion insulting.
What you are planning I don't know but in this context Gpl seems more a weapon than anything else. What happens when weapons are drawn can be anything.
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I do think that given the lack of developers, discouraging even a few of the existing ones can cause a lot of harm to the project.
I think that you will discourage one.
Gerard
Gerard Patel wrote:
I'd have no objection to Gpl *if* people having invested money in Wine success accept the move without problem....
I believe Gerard meant to write LGPL, not GPL. There hasn't been any proposal to the the GPL on wine, as far as I know. (The GPL might be too restrictive IMHO.)
- Dan
Gerard Patel gerard.patel@nerim.net writes:
Transgaming is playing by the existing rules, the rules you have enforced for a long time. If they are hurting you, that's surprising. They are not hurting me, since I have accepted your rules. What you are planning will hurt Transgaming business plan, by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in their business discussions with potential customers. Business plan that they did and implemented in good faith, perfectly conforming to your rules and expecting their stability.
Well, this sounds like an argument for the LGPL. There is absolutely no guarantee of stability with the X11 license; anybody can start a Wine tree under another license, and if developers think this is a good idea there is nothing I or anybody else can do to prevent it. It's simply part of the existing rules that the rules can change.
I'd have no objection to Gpl *if* people having invested money in Wine success accept the move without problem. I think you should feel more responsibility towards people investing in Wine, not only responsibility towards the project - in other words you, because you are the Wine project.
You know, that's exactly why we are having this discussion. If I was as selfish as you seem to think, I could change the license today without asking anybody. I'm not doing it precisely because I *do* care what people think, and I won't make the change unless it is acceptable to at least a large majority of the people affected by the change (and yes that includes Transgaming).
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Alexandre Julliard -
Dan Kegel -
Gerard Patel