This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, so I'd like comments :) Thanks
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com wrote:
This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, so I'd like comments :) Thanks
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:?
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:?
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\ - it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2009/3/8 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\ - it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
ALL versions of Windows *default* to C: being the first (primary) harddisk partition detected, and being the partition where the system gets installed. Configurations that don't have C: have been specifically configured as such, which is still possible with Wine.
What I'm unsure of, but suspect is so, is that it is impossible, on native Windows (XP, Vista, possibly server versions too?), for C: to be a network share. I'm sure it's true of Win9x :)
It is definitely possible for Drive C: to be a network share on all versions of Windows starting from Windows 95. This does not exempt Windows XP/Vista/2k3/2k8. In fact, a public library in Indiana that I used to go to before I moved has all their machines set up this way. It takes a LOT of tweaking to make it work properly, because some applications expect Windows on Drive C:, but it is possible to do it.
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com wrote:
2009/3/8 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen
Windows
installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted
network
share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would
be
appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen
wine
installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\
- it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
ALL versions of Windows *default* to C: being the first (primary) harddisk partition detected, and being the partition where the system gets installed. Configurations that don't have C: have been specifically configured as such, which is still possible with Wine.
What I'm unsure of, but suspect is so, is that it is impossible, on native Windows (XP, Vista, possibly server versions too?), for C: to be a network share. I'm sure it's true of Win9x :)
Also, Drive A: and B: can be used for network shares if you don't have a floppy drive, but this will break floppy drive support. In general, it isn't a good idea to allow Drive A: to be a network share, but since few modern machines have a 5 1/4" floppy drive anymore, Drive B: is up for grabs as a network device fairly safely.
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:04 AM, King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com wrote:
It is definitely possible for Drive C: to be a network share on all versions of Windows starting from Windows 95. This does not exempt Windows XP/Vista/2k3/2k8. In fact, a public library in Indiana that I used to go to before I moved has all their machines set up this way. It takes a LOT of tweaking to make it work properly, because some applications expect Windows on Drive C:, but it is possible to do it.
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com wrote:
2009/3/8 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen
Windows
installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted
network
share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would
be
appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen
wine
installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so
that
multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\
- it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
ALL versions of Windows *default* to C: being the first (primary) harddisk partition detected, and being the partition where the system gets installed. Configurations that don't have C: have been specifically configured as such, which is still possible with Wine.
What I'm unsure of, but suspect is so, is that it is impossible, on native Windows (XP, Vista, possibly server versions too?), for C: to be a network share. I'm sure it's true of Win9x :)
Ben Klein wrote:
2009/3/8 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\
- it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
ALL versions of Windows *default* to C: being the first (primary) harddisk partition detected, and being the partition where the system gets installed. Configurations that don't have C: have been specifically configured as such, which is still possible with Wine.
What I'm unsure of, but suspect is so, is that it is impossible, on native Windows (XP, Vista, possibly server versions too?), for C: to be a network share. I'm sure it's true of Win9x :)
This isn't strictly true with XP and earlier: if you had other drives (even sometimes card readers and USB sticks) available at install time, often Windows would install itself onto an E:\ drive. Some systems would run into trouble after adding a disk because Windows would reassign the new disk to C:\ and the old install would move off C:, breaking some apps.
On Vista, however, when you add that new disk Windows keeps its system drive as C:, even if the new disk is earlier in priority. You can also have multiple installs of Windows on a system, and while the XP ones may be happy to boot from E:, the Vista ones will also rename it to C:\ for you once inside.
So, that said, I'm not sure it's possible to have a non C:\ drive as a system drive on Vista. If so, it certainly requires more configuring than XP does, where it would happen on accident.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2009/3/9 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
Ben Klein wrote:
2009/3/8 Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org:
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:
No, and Vista now defaults to always reassigning the system drive to C:\ - it's not bad for us to copy that behavior.
ALL versions of Windows *default* to C: being the first (primary) harddisk partition detected, and being the partition where the system gets installed. Configurations that don't have C: have been specifically configured as such, which is still possible with Wine.
What I'm unsure of, but suspect is so, is that it is impossible, on native Windows (XP, Vista, possibly server versions too?), for C: to be a network share. I'm sure it's true of Win9x :)
This isn't strictly true with XP and earlier: if you had other drives (even sometimes card readers and USB sticks) available at install time, often Windows would install itself onto an E:\ drive. Some systems would run into trouble after adding a disk because Windows would reassign the new disk to C:\ and the old install would move off C:, breaking some apps.
In cases like this, doesn't the installer think it's installing on to C:, but then when the system boots up (with complete USB mass storage drivers, for example), the driver order could change? I know Win9x in particular involved nasty drive ordering rules (or lack thereof) if you insert a new harddrive or USB stick - I had a lot of fun setting my CD-ROM drive to X: so it wouldn't keep moving around and confusing games :)
I'm also fully aware of drive remapping in WinXP, and that "system" drive doesn't have to be C:, but as it has been noted a lot of installers assume C: is at least available, and in some cases assume that's where "Program Files" and "Windows" directories are.
On Vista, however, when you add that new disk Windows keeps its system drive as C:, even if the new disk is earlier in priority. You can also have multiple installs of Windows on a system, and while the XP ones may be happy to boot from E:, the Vista ones will also rename it to C:\ for you once inside.
If I read this right, Vista will boot off just about any partition, but the partition it boots off will be mapped to C: before anything else. That sounds like C: will always be a local disk to me! :)
So, that said, I'm not sure it's possible to have a non C:\ drive as a system drive on Vista. If so, it certainly requires more configuring than XP does, where it would happen on accident.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2009/3/9 Paul Chitescu paulc@voip.null.ro:
Having the C: drive always present and always local is a good idea and will save users _lots_ of trouble.
And Wine already spends quite some effort in ensuring that drive_c exists, from what I can see. There also appears to be a lot of hardcoded references to C: in the registry. I've attached an analysis. Before you ask, yes this was a completely fresh wineprefix created with 1.1.16.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngompa13@gmail.com:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program.
This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT.
That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:?
I know of several pieces of software I have to deal with that refuse to install in such a situation... I've gotten fairly adept at forcing XP to call the drive it installs on C: instead of whatever the installer really wants to call it -- sadly, that sometimes involves crashing the installer, "deleting" the offending partition (while carefully noting the cylinders it contains), then creating a partition for XP to install into that doesn't include those cylinders. Bleah!
Steve Brown sbrown7@umbc.edu
On Sunday 08 March 2009 02:43:43 King InuYasha wrote:
Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program. [...]
Having the C: drive always present and always local is a good idea and will save users _lots_ of trouble.
I have (or had - not booted it in eons) a Windows 2000 server that doesn't have a C: but only a F: (default install of W2K on an older Compaq with SCSI disk and some existing partitions) and many applications failed to install, including several Microsoft ones.
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com wrote:
This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
I've got a box at work that has B: used for a network drive.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Ben Klein wrote:
This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
The patch still hardocdes the c: drive so it is incorrect.
It has been abundantly proven that the system drive is not always the c: drive on Windows (via comments and our conformance test results). So it is not Wine's place to force the user to use c: as the system drive.
2009/3/9 Francois Gouget fgouget@free.fr:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Ben Klein wrote:
This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
The patch still hardocdes the c: drive so it is incorrect.
It has been abundantly proven that the system drive is not always the c: drive on Windows (via comments and our conformance test results). So it is not Wine's place to force the user to use c: as the system drive.
OK, so let's not hard-code C, but this still doesn't answer the real question. Should Wine enforce DRIVE_FIXED on %SystemDrive%:?
Francois Gouget wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Ben Klein wrote:
This patch should fix 17619 for new wineprefixes and other cases where C: is created. The logic is that C: should never be registered as a network share, which is the issue in 17619. It was suggested as a response to a previous patch that this should be relative to %SYSTEM% or something along those lines, but I believe that C: is a true special case, similar to how A: and B: are always reserved for floppy drives.
The patch still hardocdes the c: drive so it is incorrect.
It has been abundantly proven that the system drive is not always the c: drive on Windows (via comments and our conformance test results). So it is not Wine's place to force the user to use c: as the system drive.
It is on vista though, and I suspect later Windows will be as well.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
Scott Ritchie wrote:
Francois Gouget wrote:
It has been abundantly proven that the system drive is not always the c:
drive on Windows (via comments and our conformance test results). So it is not Wine's place to force the user to use c: as the system drive.
It is on vista though, and I suspect later Windows will be as well.
I'm not sure you're right about that; this is a copy and paste from one of my Vista machines:
: Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000] : Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. : : H:\Users\Administrator>echo %systemroot% : H:\Windows : : H:\Users\Administrator>
[On that machine, C: is the system volume of an XP 64-bit installation, and E: is where Server 2003 R2 is installed. I haven't a clue where F and G went, maybe it skipped them when it saw the Linux partitions!]
Regards, Ben A L Jemmett. http://flatpack.microwavepizza.co.uk/
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Austin English -
Ben A L Jemmett -
Ben Klein -
David Gerard -
Francois Gouget -
King InuYasha -
Paul Chitescu -
Scott Ritchie -
Steve Brown