Game-wise: Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Fallout
Neverwinter Nights Grand Prix Legends
Discworld II Wing Command 4 ( use the win95 exe instead of the dos exe )
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Mark Hannessen
--- Mark Hannessen msh104.mymail@12move.nl wrote:
Game-wise: Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Fallout
Neverwinter Nights Grand Prix Legends
Discworld II Wing Command 4 ( use the win95 exe instead of the dos exe )
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Mark Hannessen
Just a thought, why not create a bug in bugzilla where people can post which apps/games/utils work nearly (if not) perfect instead of having ten million emails. 1 bug for apps, 1 for games, and 1 for utils.
Also, Mark: Diablo II may not work out of the box, but then again it is kinda hard to get copy protection code that works right without getting a license for it *cough* transgaming *cough* cheaters *cough* ;P ...
Either way, the cracked exe works, and I have a shell script that performs the function of the bnet loader, so I can play on BNet all I want. Only problem is when Blizzard releases 1.1 :/ ... Then we gotta wait for the groups to recrack it. I definitely say we should have minimal copy protection support in the tree for the most popular games before wine 1.0 comes out.
Anyways, getting back to the original subject, I am creating the bugs right now for games apps and utilities...
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Dustin Navea wrote: [...]
Just a thought, why not create a bug in bugzilla where people can post which apps/games/utils work nearly (if not) perfect instead of having ten million emails. 1 bug for apps, 1 for games, and 1 for utils.
Because the Applications Database is the right tool for storing information about how well applications (includes games) work. If you have a single bug pertaining to many different applications, things will quickly become a mess.
Francois Gouget wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Dustin Navea wrote: [...]
Just a thought, why not create a bug in bugzilla where people can
post which
apps/games/utils work nearly (if not) perfect instead of having ten
million
emails. 1 bug for apps, 1 for games, and 1 for utils.
Because the Applications Database is the right tool for storing information about how well applications (includes games) work. If you have a single bug pertaining to many different applications, things will quickly become a mess.
A bug is a bug ... If it is a App bug or game bug it is still the same bug !! So I have to go with Francois on this.
But you could look at it as hey I just killed 50 bugs with this one patch :)
Tom
On November 1, 2002 01:07 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Depends. What do you need to do to them to get them working?
Op vrijdag 1 november 2002 21:29, schreef Dimitrie O. Paun:
On November 1, 2002 01:07 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Depends. What do you need to do to them to get them working?
A crack (http://www.gamecopyworld.com)
On Friday 01 November 2002 21:29, you wrote:
On November 1, 2002 01:07 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Depends. What do you need to do to them to get them working?
copy protection, nothing more
the problem is that there are license issues with copy protection that prevent us from inplenting it at all.
but the game itself runs perfect. every function in Diablo II is inplented and working very very well framerate is even higher then in windows !!!
you just need a crack to bypass the copy protection of the game
Mark Hannessen
On November 1, 2002 05:36 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
copy protection, nothing more
the problem is that there are license issues with copy protection that prevent us from inplenting it at all.
but the game itself runs perfect. every function in Diablo II is inplented and working very very well framerate is even higher then in windows !!!
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so. So no, these don't qualify. If we could, we can add them to a special section.
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so.
we can. we could include the cracks needed to run the game on the site. it is legal use a crack if you own the game. as long as we don't forget the disclamer: "don't download this crack unless you own this game legal"
if we can not affort having cracks on our site might point them out to a website that does have them. ( quite easy )
So no, these don't qualify. If we could, we can add them to a special section.
adding them to a different section might be a good idea. you must realize that 99% of the games out there have copy protection. so if we do not include copy protected games people will think that wine runs less than 1% of the games and i consider that a bad thing
Mark Hannessen
On Saturday 02 November 2002 03:46 am, Mark Hannessen wrote:
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so.
we can. we could include the cracks needed to run the game on the site. it is legal use a crack if you own the game. as long as we don't forget the disclamer: "don't download this crack unless you own this game legal"
Maybe for you... but, this is supposedly illegal in the U.S., thanks to legislation driven by our fiends^H^H^H^H^Hriends in Hollywood. They call this illegal law (we have many of these here in the US) the "Digital Millenium Copyright Act."
Then, again:
"All laws which are repugnant to the constitution are null and void." -Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)
so maybe not -- don't ask me, I'm one of those dangerous people who still believes in individual liberty... I'm told my type can't be trusted...
Unless you are prepared to go to jail for your convictions, I suggest you don't crack anything, get written permission from the copyright holders, or stay out of the U.S. of A:
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/
On Saturday 02 November 2002 11:46, Mark Hannessen wrote:
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so.
we can. we could include the cracks needed to run the game on the site. it is legal use a crack if you own the game. as long as we don't forget the disclamer: "don't download this crack unless you own this game legal"
Go read some news site how Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, Macromedia have sued a person who published cracks for those applications.
The last thing that companies like CodeWeavers, Transgaming and others wants something like this related to Wine.
Thanks, Hetz
Op vrijdag 1 november 2002 22:48, schreef Dimitrie O. Paun:
On November 1, 2002 05:36 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
copy protection, nothing more
the problem is that there are license issues with copy protection that prevent us from inplenting it at all.
but the game itself runs perfect. every function in Diablo II is inplented and working very very well framerate is even higher then in windows !!!
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so. So no, these don't qualify. If we could, we can add them to a special section.
I have been thinking about this. Maybe it would be possible to put the cracks on WineHQ, but making them so that: 1. They can only run in Wine (not in Windows). 2. Put a disclaimer before the download that says you may only download the 'Wine patch' if you own the game.
Mark Hannessen wrote:
On Friday 01 November 2002 21:29, you wrote:
On November 1, 2002 01:07 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
most games i own install and run ferfectly, but will not give you "out the box" experience because wine lacks good copy protection code. Diablo II is a good example
Can't we be a little bit more flexible and add these games to the list as well ???
Depends. What do you need to do to them to get them working?
copy protection, nothing more
the problem is that there are license issues with copy protection that prevent us from inplenting it at all.
but the game itself runs perfect. every function in Diablo II is inplented and working very very well framerate is even higher then in windows !!!
you just need a crack to bypass the copy protection of the game
Mark Hannessen
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
In other words, we need to write code that, when used by the ORIGNAL copy protected software, will recognize copied CDs as copied and original CDs as original with similar false negatives to what the same code running on Windows does (if we have false positives, i.e. an original CD is mistook to be pirated, that is none of the copyright holder's beef with us).
Now, unlike the DeCSS case, where the code was AIMED at a similar purpose, but actually did something else, and unlike the elcomsoft case, where the actions performed by the program could be put to several uses, some bad and some good, in this case no copyright holder can take any beef with the final outcome. I see no reason for binary distributions to be available throughout the world, backwards places like the US included.
Personally, I don't think that anything can be said against the sources as well. This is nothing more than letting software that can use the Windows infrastructure to do non-standard things with the CD do the same non-standard things on Linux/*BSD/Solaris etc. The code itself need not contain anything relating to any copy protection technique at all.
If anyone thinks that is not the case, and hosting of this code on the main WineHQ site is not desired, I am willing to host the code on my site, and also take responsibility over it's maintanance.
Shachar
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
totaly agree. but in order to do that, we need copyprotection ( like wineX or windows ) but doing that open source is NOT legal. even in my country.
In other words, we need to write code that, when used by the ORIGNAL copy protected software, will recognize copied CDs as copied and original CDs as original with similar false negatives to what the same code running on Windows does (if we have false positives, i.e. an original CD is mistook to be pirated, that is none of the copyright holder's beef with us).
the problem with copyprotection is, is that there license forbids anyone to distribute anything that gives away any hints on how to decrypt it.
and that is what open source code is all about.
so if we do it. it must be closed source ( i hate that ) else we will get seud by every closed source software programmer in the world.
Now, unlike the DeCSS case, where the code was AIMED at a similar purpose, but actually did something else, and unlike the elcomsoft case, where the actions performed by the program could be put to several uses, some bad and some good, in this case no copyright holder can take any beef with the final outcome. I see no reason for binary distributions to be available throughout the world, backwards places like the US included.
Personally, I don't think that anything can be said against the sources as well. This is nothing more than letting software that can use the Windows infrastructure to do non-standard things with the CD do the same non-standard things on Linux/*BSD/Solaris etc. The code itself need not contain anything relating to any copy protection technique at all.
tell me, how are you going to tell if a cd is real or fake without copy protection. if you really have a way to do this, please...... post it.
If anyone thinks that is not the case, and hosting of this code on the main WineHQ site is not desired, I am willing to host the code on my site, and also take responsibility over it's maintanance.
i think it is not the case. but if you now better, please tell
Mark Hannessen
On Saturday 02 November 2002 03:49 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
totaly agree. but in order to do that, we need copyprotection ( like wineX or windows ) but doing that open source is NOT legal. even in my country.
There is a tool called daemon-tools, which runs as a service on Windows. It emulates several different common copy protections, so that you can run you backups (and whatever).
Has anyone tried how well it works under Wine, and if it could be used as a solution for running copy protected games under Wine ?
It can be found at: http://www.daemon-tools.com/daemon_tools.htm
Sam, sam@pcuf.fi
Op zaterdag 2 november 2002 22:56, schreef Sam:
On Saturday 02 November 2002 03:49 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
totaly agree. but in order to do that, we need copyprotection ( like wineX or windows ) but doing that open source is NOT legal. even in my country.
There is a tool called daemon-tools, which runs as a service on Windows. It emulates several different common copy protections, so that you can run you backups (and whatever).
Has anyone tried how well it works under Wine, and if it could be used as a solution for running copy protected games under Wine ?
It can be found at: http://www.daemon-tools.com/daemon_tools.htm
Sam, sam@pcuf.fi
Daemon Tools can't work under Wine, because it uses a device driver. Also the problem here seems to be that it isn't possible to do such a thing as Daemon Tools, because it is forbidden with opensource.
On Saturday 02 November 2002 21:49, Mark Hannessen wrote:
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
totaly agree. but in order to do that, we need copyprotection ( like wineX or windows ) but doing that open source is NOT legal. even in my country.
I'm not sure if you are right. See the safedisc patch created by Laurent Pinchart. In my opinion that code is completely legal. And it allows all programs with Safedisc 1.x protection to work. When the patch was published, there was a discussion, and the conclusion was that the code is very probably legal, and is not against DMCA. But of course that should be checked with some lawyer.
So it could be done for one copy protection method, so maybe it can be done for others.
In other words, we need to write code that, when used by the ORIGNAL copy protected software, will recognize copied CDs as copied and original CDs as original with similar false negatives to what the same code running on Windows does (if we have false positives, i.e. an original CD is mistook to be pirated, that is none of the copyright holder's beef with us).
the problem with copyprotection is, is that there license forbids anyone to distribute anything that gives away any hints on how to decrypt it.
and that is what open source code is all about.
so if we do it. it must be closed source ( i hate that ) else we will get seud by every closed source software programmer in the world.
Are you sure about the above statements? Have you checked that, or it is just your opinion?
I can provide the safedisc patch against current cvs if anybody needs it.
Regards Zsolt
El sáb, 02 de nov de 2002, a las 21:49, Mark Hannessen escribio:
I beg to differ. We do NOT need to crack these games, nor should we aspire to it. What we need is a method for the original game's code to verify that a legally CD is indeed in the drive.
totaly agree. but in order to do that, we need copyprotection ( like wineX or windows ) but doing that open source is NOT legal. even in my country.
I don't agree here. It is a really very simple, Wine implements the windows API, and in some parts it implements a PC (or it will do), you needn't implement a library what decodes a game or some similar only make the resources what the game needs in order to run. You need only provides to the real dll (or .exe file) included in the game of what it need.
In other words, we need to write code that, when used by the ORIGNAL copy protected software, will recognize copied CDs as copied and original CDs as original with similar false negatives to what the same code running on Windows does (if we have false positives, i.e. an original CD is mistook to be pirated, that is none of the copyright holder's beef with us).
the problem with copyprotection is, is that there license forbids anyone to distribute anything that gives away any hints on how to decrypt it.
You aren't giving hints to decrypt some code, simply implementing the win32 API, and sometimes implementing a PC architecture, it is far away of decrypt code ;).
Regards, Carlos.
Surely there is no reason that wine actually has to do these checks anyway - would it not be simply possible to say that the checks passed regardless?
And even if we do decide to implement them, (I don't know the legal position on this - I'm not a lawyer or anything), I don't see why implementing copy protection code should be any different than the rest of the wine code - as long as we make it up ourselves, it should be legal (again, I'm not sure about this)
Thanks, Kye Lewis kyethespy@liquid2k.com
Mark Hannessen wrote:
Game-wise: Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Fallout
Neverwinter Nights Grand Prix Legends
Discworld II
Did you???
Displays three logos, shows the copyright screen (with death on a horse), starts playing the music and goes into a loop. What did you do to get it working?
Shachar
Z_God wrote:
Op vrijdag 1 november 2002 22:48, schreef Dimitrie O. Paun:
On November 1, 2002 05:36 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
copy protection, nothing more
the problem is that there are license issues with copy protection that prevent us from inplenting it at all.
but the game itself runs perfect. every function in Diablo II is inplented and working very very well framerate is even higher then in windows !!!
Can we post *how* to break the copy protection? I don't think so. So no, these don't qualify. If we could, we can add them to a special section.
I have been thinking about this. Maybe it would be possible to put the cracks on WineHQ, but making them so that:
- They can only run in Wine (not in Windows).
- Put a disclaimer before the download that says you may only
download the 'Wine patch' if you own the game.
Hello,
Yea right ...... humm I have this nice game that I got from a friend.. Now I see your patch.. Do I own this game ? Yes its on my pc it is mine I own it.... Did I pay for it heck noooooooo...... What ever you do dont put cracks on the WineHQ site... A crack is called ( Aiding and Abeding ) My 2 cent worth on hosting CRACKS !!!
Thomas Wickline
-
Carlos Lozano -
Dimitrie O. Paun -
Dustin Navea -
Francois Gouget -
Greg Turner -
Hetz Ben Hamo -
Kye Lewis -
Mark Hannessen -
Sam -
Shachar Shemesh -
Thomas Wickline -
Z_God -
Zsolt Rizsanyi