Alexandre said ========================================= To be honest, I have no idea what it is that you are suggesting. All I see is phrases like "community focused process" or "acceptance policy" which frankly are just meaningless buzzwords. If you expect anything to happen, you'll need to make much more concrete suggestions, and provide examples to make us understand how what you are suggesting would work in practice, and how it would be different from what we are doing now.
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Robert Lunnon wrote:
arrgh, I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls, but...
I'm a user I find wine to be very useful. I've got a client who owns a bus charter line that was able to move away from windows, and the only thing they needed was their payroll system that does work in wine.
the way I see it, wine is distributed under the LGPL. this means that when I download it, I 'own' it, am able to 'direct' it's 'development', etc. --privately--
what I don't have the right to is to tell anyone on earth what to do. that includes Alexandre, Rob, or anyone else.
if anyone else is interested in modifications I may happen to make (I don't have any, wine just works for me), that's great, but I can't force anyone to listen to me.
perhaps this email is futile too.
- --RFMuller
- Alexandre documents the exact logic he uses to determine patch
acceptability which becomes the patch acceptance policy in the interim. This should be done to the point that someone else could take over from Alexandre and achieve the same result. This opens the way to multiple maintainers as well as allowing Alexandre to take more holidays.
I'm of the opinion that code is "art" as its implementation is subjective. The idea that you could document when a patch is acceptable or not seems like an impossibility. You might be able to set a series of ground rules, no c++ comments, shouldn't contain asm unless necessary, but even a patch that fits these requirements isn't necessarily an acceptable patch.
I've almost never been unhappy with AJ's judgement except in cases like the safedisc patches where it seemed like no one really knew what was "good" and more effort wasn't put into at least providing development guidance.
Chris
On Thu, September 28, 2006 9:24 am, Chris Morgan wrote:
I'm of the opinion that code is "art" as its implementation is subjective. The idea that you could document when a patch is acceptable or not seems like an impossibility.
I wholeheartedly subscribe to this. We are far away (as a profession) to document what is a good/bad patch even when that is fairly obvious to a good maintainer, let alone document exactly the thought process for more complicated cases.
This is a waste of time. Alexandre is an amazing judge of patches, we should be happy we have him. More to the point, I think this is missing the point. If we are good at something, it is in evaluating patches on their techincal merit. This doesn't need improvement.
What we may be erring a bit is putting the techincal aspects above and beyond other considerations, such as desire for a feature at the expense of a little quality. We are delaying patch inclusion waiting for the 'right' solution, which in part is good, but when that means keeping desired features away for years on end, i think it hurts us more than it helps us being relevant to our users.
Maybe there's a way to help Alexandre better understand how much people want something, maybe that can be factored in a bit?
On 9/28/06, Chris Morgan chmorgan@gmail.com wrote:
I've almost never been unhappy with AJ's judgement except in cases like the safedisc patches where it seemed like no one really knew what was "good" and more effort wasn't put into at least providing development guidance.
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2006-August/050489.html
Tom
Chris
Robert Lunnon wrote:
"Community Focused Process" means what it says, develop a process which is centred on the community the project serves. This requires the project to answer some introspective questions
- Who "owns" Wine, does wine belong to A.) Alexandre, or B) the community
it serves.
A) Alexandre is a benelovent dictator. He manages Wine with the interests of "the community" in mind, as he sees them.
- Answer the questions about the "ownership" of wine and identify the
community it serves. Determine the right of the community to be involved is setting wines direction IE The Bill of rights I mentioned before (for each community Developers VS Users etc).
Your "bill of rights" is the Wine license, the LGPL.
- Alexandre documents the exact logic he uses to determine patch
acceptability which becomes the patch acceptance policy in the interim.
It's very likely impossible to write that down. If you don't agree with me, please write down your proposal.
- The project develops a community process for establishing project direction
and maintaining the patch acceptance policy which includes stakeholders elected from the "owners" IE communities with a stakeholding in wine
NetBSD is a project that is (was?) run by committees:
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2006/08/30/0016.html
If you want Wine to be run by a committee, how about creating your own fork so you can run it as you see fit?
Mike