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84402 discussions

aRts driver resubmit
by Chris Morgan 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

*dlls/winmm/winearts, arts.c, arts.h, audio.c, winearts.drv.spec, Makefile.in: Chris Morgan <cmorgan(a)alum.wpi.edu> Added aRts driver to wine *configure, configure.ac, dlls/Makefile.in, include/config.h.in, dlls/dsound/dsound_main.c, documentation/samples/config: Chris Morgan <cmorgan(a)alum.wpi.edu> Changes for aRts driver, added commented out entry to WinMM section of sample config file, added configure time checks for artsc support. Fixed since the last patch thanks to Erics mail: - Stream now closed correctly, doh - Cleanups - Volume code handles mono/stereo 8/16 bit - Configure stuff is now no longer hardcoded License is LGPL because I like Gavriel's code exchange idea and think it holds promise as a partial solution to license issues. Again, comments about the patch are appreciated. Thanks, Chris

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Why Wine is like playing the guitar
by Michael Robertson 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Ok, I've had some time to digest the two packed days of wineconf. It was great being around so many smart and passionate people. I've long since given up coding, so much of it went over my head but the various biz presentations hit home and I had a chance to talk to many of you to crystallize some thoughts. We need 20 million avid Linux desktoppers. Look at what Apple's vocal minority gets them. With 4% marketshare they command sections in stores. They get hardware with Mac/Win drivers. They get documentation in the box. Even stores dedicated just to them. That's what we need to get Linux really going. If we can get the user inertia and the business inertia around Linux, then that will take it to new heights. I believe Wine will play a role in this. But I think a slight re-focusing may be necessary. Have you ever tried to learn how to play the guitar? I think most people have at one time. First you start learning chords and you say to yourself "I'm going to learn all the chords so I can play all the songs". After about struggling through 4 of the 700 chords, you realize that it will take until 2037 to learn all the chords. To make guitar rewarding, you have to start with a list of popular songs and learn the chords just for those. This way you get that feeling of success and it motivates you to stick with it, even if it's just learning Happy Birthday. I believe a similar strategy could really energize Wine. We need a "top 10 tree". What WINE needs is a specific value promise to the consumer. In many ways, the same challenge confronts WINE that confronts Linux. Great things will happen *if* we get a bunch more users. But to get more users, there needs to be some specific value that people get from Wine. And it can't be fleeting value. It needs to allow them to do something specific and when they get the new version, it needs to no take away that value, but add more. The challenge we have now is that the goal for WINE is an architectual one (learn every chord). While nobody can deny the value of a solid underpinning, users don't care about the architecture. They want to hear music! And with Wine this means "what programs can I run?" I would also suggest that focusing around specific applications focuses energies of developers on solving specific user problems. The more problems you solve, the more users will get excited about Wine. One question arose at wineconf which never got addressed. "How do we get more people excited about Wine?" I've been thinking about that. I believe a specific part of the answer is making Wine actually work for a subset of programs. Take it from a theoretical white paper stage to a stage where people actually use it. I'm not suggesting its at a white paper stage, but rather if the world can't use it with any regularity for even a narrow set of applications, the perception is it's nothing more than theory. What I believe needs to happen is that we have a 'top 10' tree. A version of Wine for which the primary goal is to do a good job of running a set version of win32 programs. This serves both parties. It gets developers all laser-focused on the same goal. Because we've narrowed the universe we can do specific testing. And perhaps MOST important, consumers know what to expect. If you tell them "we have a Linux OS which will run Win32 programs, they'll bring out a geneology program from 1992 which won't run and then they'll think it sucks. If however the public commitment is "this software is designed to run the following: MS Word Lotus Notes Quicken" and it actually works, you have a believer. You have someone who will get excited and will offer their help. You give momentum to Wine. You get program sponsors (those willing to oversee ongoing supervision/testing of programs. You get more people offering to be on documentation teams. And you get more developers. One final thought. I think the only tenable way to implement a Top 10 type approach is to get widespread support. Lindows.com alone is too small to do this in a timely fashion. So is Codeweavers, transgaming, etc. The only approach with any chance of success is one which leverages the entire community. I can assure you that Lindows.com would put our full weight behind such an endeavor. While we only have a couple of coders, we've got a super QA department. We've got solid organizational skills. We have an enthusiastic user base we can tap for testing and support. I'll shutup now before I get banned from wine-devel. -- MR Ok, those are my thoughts.

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Re: Road to 0.9
by David.Goodenough＠DGA.co.uk 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

I am not convinced this is exactly the problem. I also have the problem that I have moved over from a home compiled Wine install to a Debian build, so I would need to wait for it or something like it to appear in the regular build and then get into DEB format. David Rick Romero <rick@valeoin To: Michael Cardenas <michael.cardenas(a)lindows.com> c.com> cc: David.Goodenough(a)DGA.co.uk, wine-devel(a)winehq.com Subject: Re: Road to 0.9 03/21/02 03:37 PM Actually, there's a "Hack of a patch" that was posted to wine-users regarding that issue, unless it was mentioned here, and I missed it. See http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-users/2002/02/0299.html If "Notes" is on the top 10 list, that patch might be a good place to start.. Rick On Tue, 2002-03-19 at 16:44, Michael Cardenas wrote: > That totally counts. Can you pick up builds of wine on a daily or weekly > basis and let us know if/when Notes breaks? > > David.Goodenough(a)DGA.co.uk wrote: > > >I use Lotus Notes under Wine all the time. Does that coult. > > > >BTW, the current Debian testing build has a curious problem in that I am > >typing blind. When in a Notes RichText field (but not in regular text > >fields) until I move onto the next line, or switch desktops and back, I can > >not see what I am typing at all. The new text and the cursor simply > >dissappear. Does wonders for my touch typing. > > > >David > > > > > > > > > > Michael Cardenas > > <michael.cardenas@li To: wine-devel <wine-devel(a)winehq.com> > > ndows.com> cc: > > Sent by: Subject: Re: Road to 0.9 > > wine-devel-admin@win > > ehq.com > > > > > > 03/19/02 06:15 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I think this will really bring us a long way to having a stable wine. > > > >Does anyone besides lawson have a pet application that they use all the > >time? > > > >Any volunteers? > > > >James Hatheway wrote: > > > >>>C. Testing apps? I have no real idea what you mean. > >>> > >>Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear, I just typed in > >>word for word my brief shorthand notes :) > >> > >>Basically, the idea that we had was the concept of getting users > >>to volunteer to "own" an app, ie. responsible for yelling when > >>we break an app. This already sort of happens, but never > >>in a formal way. We never decided the details, but I envisiage > >>having one person volunteering to each test their favourite app on every > >>release and filing bugs. (in a way that is helpful, we'll have docs for > >> > >that) > > > >> > >>-James > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- -- Rick Romero IT Manager Valeo, Inc. ph: 262.685.4841 Sussex, WI. fax: 262.695.4850 Rick(a)valeoinc.com

1 0

Re: Current CVS build
by Daniel Bingham 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Thomas Duffy wrote: >On Thu, 2002-03-21 at 13:46, Daniel Bingham wrote: > >>This afternoon (3-21 @ 12:30ish) I downloaded the current cvs and tried >> > >Alexandre checked in a fix today at 12:36 :) -- well, at least in my >time zone. > I just updated my CVS tree and rebuilt it, and I still get the same error on trying to execute wine. I haven't ever had the error on build again after I did the make install on the unicode directory. I tried make uninstall on the unicode directory and then make clean, etc from the wine root and I still didn't get the error on build, but no matter what I still get the error on execution of wine: wine: error while loading shared libraries: libntdll.dll.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory -- How every version of MICROS~1 windows comes to exist: # dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda -- "All variables are removed by `unset *`; this has noticeably distasteful side effects." - Solaris man pages for setenv

2 2

mapping a directory
by Lonnie Cumberland 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

Hello All, I have installed the latest Wine onto my Linux Redhat 7.2 and it seems to run very well for the most part. I can easily map a Linux directory to a Windows drive, but I actually have a need to be able to map a linux directory to windows subdirectory. About the only way that I can currently think of that might work would be to use a symbolic link on the Linux subsystem. cheers, Lonnie -- Lonnie Cumberland OutStep Technologies Incorporated EMAIL: Lonnie(a)OutStep.com : Lonnie_Cumberland(a)yahoo.com The Basis Express Virtual Office & Data Backup and Recovery Services URL: http://www.basis-express.com "The Virtual Office without boundaries!!!"

2 2

Current CVS build
by Daniel Bingham 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

This afternoon (3-21 @ 12:30ish) I downloaded the current cvs and tried to build and install it. I made it through configure and make depend without any problems, but make returned: /usr/bin/ld: warning: libwine_unicode.so needed for libntdll.dll.so, not found I saw that libwine_unicode.so was indeed there so I did a make, make install on the unicode directory. That completed without any errors so I went back to the wine root direcotry, did make clean; ./configure; make depend; make; make install and that all completed without errors. Then when trying to run wine I get the error: wine: error while loading shared libraries: libntdll.dll.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I thought you guys might need the information on the cvs, and if not, maybe at least you could help me. Thanks. Daniel Bingham db78(a)att.net

2 1

wineconf and ideas
by Jason Phillips 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

Just wanted to say I had a really interesting time at WineConf2002. Mucho gracias to Lindows for their generosity in hosting it. I'm pretty much new to wine so I got a lot out of it, and it was great meeting the Wine developers in person. Here are a couple of points that I would really like to agree with about what was already mentioned that's needed for Wine. 1) Use the winehq bugzilla. There are only something like less than 500 hundred bugs in reported so far. I'm sure that the number of actual bugs is dozens of times more than that. Also bugzilla lets people know who's working on what, what issues are being worked on, and other information that makes it easier for newcomers. Something that wasn't really mentioned but maybe should be is to let there be more of an established process in how bugs go through their cycle. Normally that's largely the role of QA and in an open source project QA is one of the less "fun" roles, but it's still needed. For example, I submitted a patch that fixed a bug and I'm now curious how and when that goes to the "closed" status. 2) Create the unit/regression tests. In Xtreme programming I vaguely remember that writing the unit test is the first step before actually writing any code to clearly define the technical requirements and also verify that it does what it needs to do. I can see the value in that, even though it wouldn't be practical to take it to that level. Possibly as an idea, there could be two levels of tests. One, more of a sanity test type check and another which would be much more rigorous and lengthy for regression and unit testing. Making a few tests is something that I could start with right away. Wineserver seems an interesting place to start doing stuff and poking around, but I don't want to get in too deep right away. Besides I heard there's already work being done on it in some way (hint: if it was in bugzilla I'd know exactly what's being done and by whom). Maybe I'll do a developer type doc on wineserver and how it all works as I figure it out for myself. Michael Robertson commented on how wine could attract attention by focusing on a top 10 sort of list. That seems like a good idea. That's one of Lindows' main goals anyway, right? Maybe they could start submitting bugs from their own testing. If Lindows want's to make a substantial difference in Wine development why don't they hire more than 2 developers devoted to it? Working off of and submitting to the official LGPL Wine source would also obviously be a great help too. Having a proprietary code fork doesn't really help the official Wine out that much, especially if it's never merged back in.

3 3

Regression error detected!
by Paul Millar 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

Hi Everyone, Just a couple of points: I've detected a regression error: cvs doesn't build any more (at least not for me). See http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/paulm/WRT/wrt.php and http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/paulm/WRT/buildinfo.php?id=29 for details. Also, this build fail illustrated a couple of problems with the current setup, so any updates to wine wont cause WRT to update for a little while. Should be back in action again soon, though. HTH, Paul.

2 1

Re: getting an embedded ie browser to work
by Michael Cardenas 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

Dmitry Timoshkov wrote: >"Michael Cardenas" wrote: > >>>>>08d10f38:Call >>>>>kernel32.WideCharToMultiByte(00000000,00000000,405b54f4 L"Internet >>>>>Explorer_Hidden",ffffffff,405b52a0,00000207,00000000,00000000) >>>>>ret=70bd1cbf >>>>>08d10f38:Ret kernel32.WideCharToMultiByte() retval=00000019 >>>>>ret=70bd1cbf >>>>> >>I tried an isolated test case and strlenW works fine. I'm going to try >>to see if another string is somehow getting passed to it. ??? > >I don't see any problem with the above trace. "Internet Explorer_Hidden" has >length 24 + '\0' = 25. WideCharToMultiByte() has returned 0x19 == 25 decimal. >Why did you conclude that '_' can't be translated from unicode to ANSI? > You're right. goddamn. I've been looking at this problem for too long. thanks. :-/ -- /*-------------------------------------------- michael cardenas lead windows compatibility engineer www.lindows.com "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Mahatma Gandhi ---------------------------------------------*/

1 0

Re: Road to 0.9
by Michael Cardenas 21 Mar '02

21 Mar '02

That totally counts. Can you pick up builds of wine on a daily or weekly basis and let us know if/when Notes breaks? David.Goodenough(a)DGA.co.uk wrote: >I use Lotus Notes under Wine all the time. Does that coult. > >BTW, the current Debian testing build has a curious problem in that I am >typing blind. When in a Notes RichText field (but not in regular text >fields) until I move onto the next line, or switch desktops and back, I can >not see what I am typing at all. The new text and the cursor simply >dissappear. Does wonders for my touch typing. > >David > > > > > Michael Cardenas > <michael.cardenas@li To: wine-devel <wine-devel(a)winehq.com> > ndows.com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: Road to 0.9 > wine-devel-admin@win > ehq.com > > > 03/19/02 06:15 PM > > > > > > > > >I think this will really bring us a long way to having a stable wine. > >Does anyone besides lawson have a pet application that they use all the >time? > >Any volunteers? > >James Hatheway wrote: > >>>C. Testing apps? I have no real idea what you mean. >>> >>Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear, I just typed in >>word for word my brief shorthand notes :) >> >>Basically, the idea that we had was the concept of getting users >>to volunteer to "own" an app, ie. responsible for yelling when >>we break an app. This already sort of happens, but never >>in a formal way. We never decided the details, but I envisiage >>having one person volunteering to each test their favourite app on every >>release and filing bugs. (in a way that is helpful, we'll have docs for >> >that) > >> >>-James >> > > > > > > > > > >

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