Hi All,
If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango graphics for wine to Gitorious...
http://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango clone: git clone git://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango.git branch: public-beta-1
This branch features Roderick Colenbrander's as-yet unmerged XRender patches, some patches from me for 32-bit support in the areas of icons, image lists and toolbars, and a partial set of patches to apply the tango graphics for shell32, user32 and comdlg32. Graphics for other apps/dlls are excluded, as well as the few tests I've produced.
The work is most clear to see if you open a file dialog, or a message box.
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
Comments and criticisms are welcome!
Best Regards Joel Holdsworth
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Joel Holdsworth joel@airwebreathe.org.uk wrote:
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
Looks really great. Nice job :)
--John Klehm
Joel Holdsworth wrote:
Hi All,
Hi, Joel.
If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango graphics for wine to Gitorious...
http://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango clone: git clone git://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango.git branch: public-beta-1
This branch features Roderick Colenbrander's as-yet unmerged XRender patches, some patches from me for 32-bit support in the areas of icons, image lists and toolbars, and a partial set of patches to apply the tango graphics for shell32, user32 and comdlg32. Graphics for other apps/dlls are excluded, as well as the few tests I've produced.
The work is most clear to see if you open a file dialog, or a message box.
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
This looks really great. But what for a first look wine glass position and size isn't consistent for 48x48 icons - is there any reason for that?
Also it's interesting how will it look if a fallback to grayscale, monochrome or 16-bit is needed? Maybe it's handled somewhere already, I don't know.
Comments and criticisms are welcome!
Best Regards Joel Holdsworth
On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 19:02 +0400, Nikolay Sivov wrote:
This looks really great. But what for a first look wine glass position and size isn't consistent for 48x48 icons - is there any reason for that?
As I was drawing the icons, it didn't seem appropriate to draw the glass in the same way for all the icons. e.g. I don't think it would be appropriate to have a small glass for winetest - it wouldn't look good with the tickbox. It's debatable for notepad, and wordpad; these are more of a product of the tango icons I originally inherited from Ubuntu Studio.
Also it's interesting how will it look if a fallback to grayscale, monochrome or 16-bit is needed? Maybe it's handled somewhere already, I don't know.
16-bit works fine - X renders the icons in true color then downsamples. greyscale/monochrome will be similar, not that the end result would be pretty. A more realistic case is 8-bit, and the only way I can think to set that up is with ssh+X11 in cygwin in a WinXP VM with the screen depth set to 8-bit, but wine doesn't even start in this case due to missing extensions, so I assume it's not supported.
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009, Joel Holdsworth wrote: [...]
16-bit works fine - X renders the icons in true color then downsamples. greyscale/monochrome will be similar, not that the end result would be pretty. A more realistic case is 8-bit, and the only way I can think to set that up is with ssh+X11 in cygwin in a WinXP VM with the screen depth set to 8-bit, but wine doesn't even start in this case due to missing extensions, so I assume it's not supported.
The right way to test paletted 8bpp is probably to use vncserver. Something like that should do it:
vncserver -depth 8 -cc 3
I tested Wine in paletted mode years ago and it worked at the time.
Joel Holdsworth wrote:
Hi All,
If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango graphics for wine to Gitorious...
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
Most icons look awesome, great work! Have few questions about some of the icons:
Shell32: - Folder is more open then closed, especially on big size icons. - netdrive2 smallest size, should have red x raised a bit. - shortcut should be in the lover left corner, not upper right.
I'm not sure I like all icons from user32. - Why is the shape if the question changed? What's wrong with a balloon? - Exclamation should really have yellow background. Use of red is questionable. Traffic signs are not really suitable for icons. - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most people. - Here and everywhere else, wine glass should be tilted, not standing upright. - Incandescent light bulbs are outlawed you should be using them <g> This icon probably fine until some one green looks at it.
WCMD icon - Wine not using *NIX paths, it's really is "c:".
Vitaliy.
2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen wine-devel@kievinfo.com:
- The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
people.
Actually, assuming you mean http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it recognizable to some people.)
On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 21:43 +0200, Henri Verbeet wrote:
2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen wine-devel@kievinfo.com:
- The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
people.
Actually, assuming you mean http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it recognizable to some people.)
It's the dialog error icon from the Tango base set. Does that carry any weight? maybe... maybe not. It seemed clear enough to me though.
2009/9/19 Joel Holdsworth joel@airwebreathe.org.uk:
On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 21:43 +0200, Henri Verbeet wrote:
2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen wine-devel@kievinfo.com:
- The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
people.
Actually, assuming you mean http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it recognizable to some people.)
It's the dialog error icon from the Tango base set. Does that carry any weight? maybe... maybe not. It seemed clear enough to me though.
Possibly, consistency is generally a good thing. I can't say I pay a whole lot of attention to the icons in messageboxes, but I could see how this one wouldn't be entirely clear on its own to a new user. The color red probably does more to convey the message "error" than the sign.
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Henri Verbeet hverbeet@gmail.com wrote:
2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen wine-devel@kievinfo.com:
- The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
people.
Actually, assuming you mean http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that
Yup used for "Do Not Enter" as seen here: http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0001-0412-0922-0613.html
I thought it worked alright as en error icon.
--John
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Joel Holdsworth joel@airwebreathe.org.ukwrote:
Hi All,
If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango graphics for wine to Gitorious...
http://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango clone: git clone git://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango.git branch: public-beta-1
This branch features Roderick Colenbrander's as-yet unmerged XRender patches, some patches from me for 32-bit support in the areas of icons, image lists and toolbars, and a partial set of patches to apply the tango graphics for shell32, user32 and comdlg32. Graphics for other apps/dlls are excluded, as well as the few tests I've produced.
The work is most clear to see if you open a file dialog, or a message box.
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
Comments and criticisms are welcome!
Best Regards Joel Holdsworth
I have a few comments on these icons, so I'll comment on them by icon filename.
idb_std_large.bmp & idb_std_small.bmp - The third to last and the sixth to last icons do not make sense. I don't understand why they were designed the way they were. The icons imply something different from the original icons. Please change them to be more similar to the original icons.
floppy.ico - The replacement icon for this was a very bad choice. I know that currently GNOME does this anyway, but it is a really bad choice. It should represent a floppy DRIVE, not a floppy DISK.
mycomputer.ico - Why is the 32x32 icon have a purple display instead of a blue one like the smaller sized ones? Fix that for consistency. Also I attached a SVG with it included that has WINE in the text underneath the monitor instead of PONY. I couldn't figure out Inkscape to get the color to change though.
mydocs.ico - Bad icon choice. I would suggest making a whole new one to represent this one. "Home directory" is NOT the same as the "My Documents folder," despite the fact that Wine erroneously equates the two by default in winecfg.
netdrive2.ico & netdrive.ico - Very WRONG choice. These icons are supposed to be network DRIVES, not network SHARES. Network Shares have separate icons in shell32.dll.
shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the SVG to match the original one.
oic_note.ico - The icon is somewhat ambiguous, compared to the original.
dxdiag - The icon is way too similar to Mac OS X's logo. Use a different styled X.
wcmd - Not really a problem, even though somebody else argued about adding C: to it.
That's all for now!
On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 13:52 -0500, King InuYasha wrote:
idb_std_large.bmp & idb_std_small.bmp - The third to last and the sixth to last icons do not make sense. I don't understand why they were designed the way they were. The icons imply something different from the original icons. Please change them to be more similar to the original icons.
Yes I see what you're saying. Looks like I have some work to do here. First off, the print and print preview icons have become swapped, and the Tango base Find icon looks a lot like the old print preview icon.
floppy.ico - The replacement icon for this was a very bad choice. I know that currently GNOME does this anyway, but it is a really bad choice. It should represent a floppy DRIVE, not a floppy DISK.
This is from the tango base. I'm not sure anyone would be confused. In fact it's much harder to show an FD drive clearly.
mycomputer.ico - Why is the 32x32 icon have a purple display instead of a blue one like the smaller sized ones? Fix that for consistency. Also I attached a SVG with it included that has WINE in the text underneath the monitor instead of PONY. I couldn't figure out Inkscape to get the color to change though.
Good question - it's a product of Tango base. It didn't seem like a big deal to me. I can fix it if you feel that would be a good idea.
mydocs.ico - Bad icon choice. I would suggest making a whole new one to represent this one. "Home directory" is NOT the same as the "My Documents folder," despite the fact that Wine erroneously equates the two by default in winecfg.
Yes I've been thinking about this. The alternative would be som ething like this: http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/tango/tango-icon-theme/scalable/actions/docume...
Though this is usually taken to mean "Open Document"
netdrive2.ico & netdrive.ico - Very WRONG choice. These icons are supposed to be network DRIVES, not network SHARES. Network Shares have separate icons in shell32.dll.
Rrrr - you're right. I will need to fix this.
shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?
oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the SVG to match the original one.
It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The set seems ok to me.
oic_note.ico - The icon is somewhat ambiguous, compared to the original.
Again inherited from the Tango base set.
dxdiag - The icon is way too similar to Mac OS X's logo. Use a different styled X.
Yes you're the third person to make that comment. I plan to redo it.
wcmd - Not really a problem, even though somebody else argued about adding C: to it.
Yes seems ok to me.
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Joel Holdsworth joel@airwebreathe.org.uk wrote:
floppy.ico - The replacement icon for this was a very bad choice. I know that currently GNOME does this anyway, but it is a really bad choice. It should represent a floppy DRIVE, not a floppy DISK.
This is from the tango base. I'm not sure anyone would be confused. In fact it's much harder to show an FD drive clearly.
The problem is that a floppy disk is used quite a lot to represent "Save File." While it isn't normally used in Tango that way, several GNOME and wxWidgets applications do that. And all Windows apps that do not rely on common controls do too.
Here is an example of a floppy drive icon: http://www.iconspedia.com/icon/floppy-drive-178-.html
You could use the CD drive icon from Tango and replace the CD part with half of a floppy disk image.
mycomputer.ico - Why is the 32x32 icon have a purple display instead of a blue one like the smaller sized ones? Fix that for consistency. Also I attached a SVG with it included that has WINE in the text underneath the monitor instead of PONY. I couldn't figure out Inkscape to get the color to change though.
Good question - it's a product of Tango base. It didn't seem like a big deal to me. I can fix it if you feel that would be a good idea.
I really do think it should be fixed. It looks somewhat awkward when the color changes like that.
mydocs.ico - Bad icon choice. I would suggest making a whole new one to represent this one. "Home directory" is NOT the same as the "My Documents folder," despite the fact that Wine erroneously equates the two by default in winecfg.
Yes I've been thinking about this. The alternative would be som ething like this:
http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/tango/tango-icon-theme/scalable/actions/docume...
Though this is usually taken to mean "Open Document"
I suggest you could use the emblems for Documents, Pictures, Music, and Videos along with the folder icon to make a new icon for My Documents/Pictures/Music/Videos. I really would not recommend using the "Open Document" icon.
shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?
Yes, Wine replicates Windows' effects, so it should look like Windows icon styles.
oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the SVG to match the original one.
It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The set seems ok to me.
An (X) is a bit more recognizable than a (-).
oic_note.ico - The icon is somewhat ambiguous, compared to the original.
Again inherited from the Tango base set.
Doesn't mean it can't be replaced. I'm guessing it just needs to follow Tango style. You could use the question mark icon and modify it to show an "i" for information. Or use an icon to symbolize a "note."
King InuYasha wrote:
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Joel Holdsworth <joel@airwebreathe.org.uk mailto:joel@airwebreathe.org.uk> wrote: > shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be > bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?Yes, Wine replicates Windows' effects, so it should look like Windows icon styles.
I don't know if we can say this. Only when our Wine-supplied icons are appearing near application-supplied icons do we gain some consistency by mimicing Windows style, but that consistency is confined to that particular app. Most icons the user sees are instead going to be compared with the rest of the desktop and its applications, and adopting a Tango style rather than a Windows style is the only way to get that overall consistency.
If we're not careful, Wine apps may continue to stick out rather than be just another part of the desktop.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009, Joel Holdsworth wrote: [...]
shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?
Presumably the shortcut icon is going to be overlaid on top of another icon by the Windows application. If that's indeed the case, its orientation needs to match where the Windows application is going to place it. If not, then matching Gnome would be just as well for better desktop integration.
oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the SVG to match the original one.
It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The set seems ok to me.
If that one is modified, then certerror.bmp and smallicons.bmp will need to be updated in cryptui.dll.
I don't care much about the white cross vs the wrong way sign. But if switching to the white corss, it will also mean we'll have a white cross in a red square and a white cross in a red circle and they won't have the same meaning (just like on Windows).
dxdiag - The icon is way too similar to Mac OS X's logo. Use a different styled X.
Yes you're the third person to make that comment. I plan to redo it.
For me the X evokes the X server (even if one for the branches should be finer). So this icon evokes configuring the X server which is a bit puzzling. I don't think I could ever tie a single X to DirectX. So I'd suggest replacing it with either 'DX' or '3D' (eventhough the latter is a bit incorrect as dxdiag is about more than just 3D).
On Sa, 2009-09-19 at 12:13 +0100, Joel Holdsworth wrote:
The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here: http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ .
As I already mentioned a while ago, the new Icons looks nice, but some things are Strange: - the lens is wrong in idb_std_small.bmp for print and print_preview.
- Print Previw on windows is a document with a lens, but in your drawing, it's a printer with a lens (idb_std_*.bmp)
A typical use of both icons: wine wordpad
The icons for the programs are inconsistent: - Wine glas size, - Wine glas location - The Wine glas also in the smallest symbol for notepad and wordpad, but missing in all other symbols
iexplore has no icon.
-
Detlef Riekenberg -
Francois Gouget -
Henri Verbeet -
Joel Holdsworth -
John Klehm -
King InuYasha -
Nikolay Sivov -
Scott Ritchie -
Vitaliy Margolen