Re: po: Tweak the French 'broadcast' and 'unicast' translations.

[Frédéric Delanoy]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Francois Gouget  wrote:
> Surprisingly enough (for me) the existing translations match the term
> used in Microsoft's Terminology file:
>    "broadcast address" -> "adresse de diffusion"
>    "broadcast"         -> "diffusion"
>    "multicast"         -> "multidiffusion"
>    "unicast"           -> "monodiffusion"
>
> https://www.microsoft.com/Language/en-US/Terminology.aspx
>
> But I still don't think they're good translations. I find 'diffusion'
> way too general and vague. Reading it I would certainly not make the
> link with broadcast, even in the domain of networking. Similarly I don't
> think 'monodiffusion' would be readily understood.
>
> So I'm more enclined to follow Wikipedia which uses the untranslated
> terms as the title of their French articles:

Well they're just untranslated... you said it

The "grand dictionnaire terminologique"
(http://gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/Resultat.aspx) gives
broadcast -> diffusion (générale)
multicast -> multidiffusion / diffusion groupée (beurk)
monocast -> envoi individuel

http://glossaire.traduc.org/ (used for manpages/howtos) gives
broadcast -> diffusion
multicast -> multidiffusion
unicast -> unicast

BTW to broadcast = diffuser

I may agree with unicast but the "diffusion" and "multidiffusion" seem OK to me

po: Tweak the French 'broadcast' and 'unicast' translations.

[GOUJON Alexandre]

On 07/12/2013 07:30 PM, Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Francois Gouget  wrote:
> > Surprisingly enough (for me) the existing translations match the term
> > used in Microsoft's Terminology file:
> >     "broadcast address" -> "adresse de diffusion"
> >     "broadcast"         -> "diffusion"
> >     "multicast"         -> "multidiffusion"
> >     "unicast"           -> "monodiffusion"
> >
> > https://www.microsoft.com/Language/en-US/Terminology.aspx
> >
> > But I still don't think they're good translations. I find 'diffusion'
> > way too general and vague. Reading it I would certainly not make the
> > link with broadcast, even in the domain of networking. Similarly I don't
> > think 'monodiffusion' would be readily understood.
> >
> > So I'm more enclined to follow Wikipedia which uses the untranslated
> > terms as the title of their French articles:
>
> Well they're just untranslated... you said it
>
> The "grand dictionnaire terminologique"
> (http://gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/Resultat.aspx) gives
> broadcast -> diffusion (générale)
> multicast -> multidiffusion / diffusion groupée (beurk)
> monocast -> envoi individuel
>
> http://glossaire.traduc.org/ (used for manpages/howtos) gives
> broadcast -> diffusion
> multicast -> multidiffusion
> unicast -> unicast
>
> BTW to broadcast = diffuser
>
> I may agree with unicast but the "diffusion" and "multidiffusion" seem OK to me

And that's why some french people (including me) prefer taking their 
networking (Cisco and the like) exam in english rather than in their 
native language : sentences look Google-translated and their meaning is 
unclear until you "think" in english.

This is particularly true among programmers/network admins.. (who use a 
lot of technical and english terms) but casual users also tend to reject 
the always-translate-into-french idea. Quoting an article 
http://www.clubic.com/actualite-298446-haro-phishing-place-filoutage.html 
that made me laugh so hard I bookmarked it :

"Arrivé sur le World Wide Web, je me connecte à un proxy quand Mac OS X 
m'informe par l'intermédiaire d'une pop-up qu'une opération de phishing 
pourrait bien être en cours. Dans le même temps, j'ai l'impression que 
ma zone de swap sature : une nouvelle fois, je vais devoir dumper la 
base de données sur laquelle je travaille [..] puis rebooter ma machine. 
<snip>"

becomes

"Arrivé sur la Toile d'araignée mondiale, je me connecte à un serveur 
mandataire quand mon système d'exploitation exclusif m'informe par 
l'intermédiaire d'une fenêtre intruse qu'une opération de filoutage 
pourrait bien être en cours. Dans le même temps, j'ai le sentiment que 
ma zone de permutation sature : une nouvelle fois, je vais devoir 
clicher la base de données sur laquelle je travaille [..] puis réamorcer 
ma machine."

[If you don't laugh, you should at least be smiling now]

As to know whether you should keep them untranslated or not, I think you 
should translate them anyway because translating basically means 'using 
native words to describe and understand what was written in an other 
language' so use the "frenchiest" version of each word .. but that's 
only my point of view which is of course, debatable.

po: Tweak the French 'broadcast' and 'unicast' translations.

[Frédéric Delanoy]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 10:29 PM, GOUJON Alexandre  wrote:
> This is particularly true among programmers/network admins.. (who use a lot
> of technical and english terms) but casual users also tend to reject the
> always-translate-into-french idea. Quoting an article that made me laugh so
> hard I bookmarked it :
>
> "Arrivé sur le World Wide Web, je me connecte à un proxy quand Mac OS X
> m'informe par l'intermédiaire d'une pop-up qu'une opération de phishing
> pourrait bien être en cours. Dans le même temps, j'ai l'impression que ma
> zone de swap sature : une nouvelle fois, je vais devoir dumper la base de
> données sur laquelle je travaille [..] puis rebooter ma machine. <snip>"
>
> becomes
>
> "Arrivé sur la Toile d'araignée mondiale, je me connecte à un serveur
> mandataire quand mon système d'exploitation exclusif m'informe par
> l'intermédiaire d'une fenêtre intruse qu'une opération de filoutage pourrait
> bien être en cours. Dans le même temps, j'ai le sentiment que ma zone de
> permutation sature : une nouvelle fois, je vais devoir clicher la base de
> données sur laquelle je travaille [..] puis réamorcer ma machine."
>
> [If you don't laugh, you should at least be smiling now]

Well that's an extreme case, but often people use English (a.k.a.
franglais) when not necessary to be seen as "cool",
e.g. meeting has a perfectly usable French translation, "réunion".

The above looks more like automatic google translation.

Frédéric

po: Tweak the French 'broadcast' and 'unicast' translations.

[Francois Gouget]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013, Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
[...]
> The "grand dictionnaire terminologique"
> (http://gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/Resultat.aspx) gives

The thing is this dictionary is not actually French... it's Québécois. 
One of the differences is that Québécois is a lot more strict about not 
using English words, ever.

[...]
> BTW to broadcast = diffuser

And also 'télédiffuser', 'émettre', 'transmettre', 'annoncer', 
'téléviser', 'émission', etc.
> I may agree with unicast but the "diffusion" and "multidiffusion" seem OK to me

It's the opposite for me. At least I can recognise that 'monodiffusion' 
being a made up word it must have something to do with networking. But 
just plain 'diffusion' can be used in so many contexts..

po: Tweak the French 'broadcast' and 'unicast' translations.

[Frédéric Delanoy]

On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Francois Gouget  wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2013, Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
> [...]
> > The "grand dictionnaire terminologique"
> > (http://gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/Resultat.aspx) gives
>
> The thing is this dictionary is not actually French... it's Québécois.
> One of the differences is that Québécois is a lot more strict about not
> using English words, ever.

Well it's not only this dictionary which tells that. I've seen it used
in other dictionaries and networking books too.
> [...]
> > BTW to broadcast = diffuser
>
> And also 'télédiffuser', 'émettre', 'transmettre', 'annoncer',
> 'téléviser', 'émission', etc.
> > I may agree with unicast but the "diffusion" and "multidiffusion" seem OK to me
>
> It's the opposite for me. At least I can recognise that 'monodiffusion'
> being a made up word it must have something to do with networking. But
> just plain 'diffusion' can be used in so many contexts..

Well the context of networking is pretty clear here: networking
(netstat/ipconfig/...), certainly not television...

Frédéric