Re: iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi Christopher,

Christopher Harvey wrote:
> What needs to get done for iTunes to work?

v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
registry stuff properly.

I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
silently fails if they don't exist.

I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
installing without first manually creating those registry keys.

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[James Hawkins]

On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> Hi Christopher,
>
> Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
>
> v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> registry stuff properly.
>
> I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> silently fails if they don't exist.
>
> I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> installing without first manually creating those registry keys.

The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
to?

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > Hi Christopher,
> >
> > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> >
> > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > registry stuff properly.
> >
> > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > silently fails if they don't exist.
> >
> > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
>
> The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> to?

Keys like:
In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
ImagePath="C:...."
Start=0x00000002
Description="....."

Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
the service. :-)

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[James Hawkins]

On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > Hi Christopher,
> > >
> > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > >
> > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > registry stuff properly.
> > >
> > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > >
> > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> >
> > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > to?
>
> Keys like:
> In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> ImagePath="C:...."
> Start=0x00000002
> Description="....."
>
> Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> the service. :-)

hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
(though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
start.)

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi James,

2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > >
> > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > >
> > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > >
> > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > >
> > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > to?
> >
> > Keys like:
> > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > ImagePath="C:...."
> > Start=0x00000002
> > Description="....."
> >
> > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > the service. :-)
>
> hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> start.)

There is a big difference. Without it it will abort installation
because the bonjour service fails to start. With it it will start but
immediately crash, however that happens after start so installation
happily continues. The effect is that installer will continue. I don't
see how it can be fine if it fails to create the appropiate registry
keys.

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[James Hawkins]

On Feb 17, 2008 11:16 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > >
> > > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > > >
> > > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > > >
> > > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > > to?
> > >
> > > Keys like:
> > > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > > ImagePath="C:...."
> > > Start=0x00000002
> > > Description="....."
> > >
> > > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > > the service. :-)
> >
> > hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> > get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> > don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> > (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> > start.)
>
> There is a big difference. Without it it will abort installation
> because the bonjour service fails to start. With it it will start but
> immediately crash, however that happens after start so installation
> happily continues. The effect is that installer will continue. I don't
> see how it can be fine if it fails to create the appropiate registry
> keys.

I'm not saying it's not.  I'm saying that the call to CreateService
doesn't fail, or you'd get an err, like I said before.

service = CreateServiceW(hscm, name, disp, GENERIC_ALL, serv_type,
                             start_type, err_control, file->TargetPath,
                             load_order, NULL, NULL, serv_name, pass);
    if (!service)
    {
        if (GetLastError() != ERROR_SERVICE_EXISTS)
            ERR("Failed to create service %s: %d\n", debugstr_w(name),
GetLastError());
    }

I'm not saying there's not a bug in CreateServiceW, but as it stands,
we don't get a failure.

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi James,

2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:16 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > Hi James,
> >
> > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > > > to?
> > > >
> > > > Keys like:
> > > > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > > > ImagePath="C:...."
> > > > Start=0x00000002
> > > > Description="....."
> > > >
> > > > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > > > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > > > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > > > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > > > the service. :-)
> > >
> > > hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> > > get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> > > don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> > > (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> > > start.)
> >
> > There is a big difference. Without it it will abort installation
> > because the bonjour service fails to start. With it it will start but
> > immediately crash, however that happens after start so installation
> > happily continues. The effect is that installer will continue. I don't
> > see how it can be fine if it fails to create the appropiate registry
> > keys.
>
> I'm not saying it's not.  I'm saying that the call to CreateService
> doesn't fail, or you'd get an err, like I said before.
> service = CreateServiceW(hscm, name, disp, GENERIC_ALL, serv_type,
>                          start_type, err_control, file->TargetPath,
>                          load_order, NULL, NULL, serv_name, pass);
> if (!service)
> {
>     if (GetLastError() != ERROR_SERVICE_EXISTS)
>         ERR("Failed to create service %s: %d\n", debugstr_w(name),
>
> GetLastError());
>     }
>
> I'm not saying there's not a bug in CreateServiceW, but as it stands,
> we don't get a failure.

You can try for yourself at the following link:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/windows/bonjourforwindows.html

Or try iTunes v7.6 directly.

It could also be that it never calls CreateService for some reason,
I'm not 100% sure.

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[James Hawkins]

On Feb 17, 2008 11:39 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > On Feb 17, 2008 11:16 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > Hi James,
> > >
> > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > > > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > > > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > > > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > > > > to?
> > > > >
> > > > > Keys like:
> > > > > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > > > > ImagePath="C:...."
> > > > > Start=0x00000002
> > > > > Description="....."
> > > > >
> > > > > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > > > > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > > > > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > > > > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > > > > the service. :-)
> > > >
> > > > hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> > > > get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> > > > don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> > > > (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> > > > start.)
> > >
> > > There is a big difference. Without it it will abort installation
> > > because the bonjour service fails to start. With it it will start but
> > > immediately crash, however that happens after start so installation
> > > happily continues. The effect is that installer will continue. I don't
> > > see how it can be fine if it fails to create the appropiate registry
> > > keys.
> >
> > I'm not saying it's not.  I'm saying that the call to CreateService
> > doesn't fail, or you'd get an err, like I said before.
> > service = CreateServiceW(hscm, name, disp, GENERIC_ALL, serv_type,
> >                          start_type, err_control, file->TargetPath,
> >                          load_order, NULL, NULL, serv_name, pass);
> > if (!service)
> > {
> >     if (GetLastError() != ERROR_SERVICE_EXISTS)
> >         ERR("Failed to create service %s: %d\n", debugstr_w(name),
> >
> > GetLastError());
> >     }
> >
> > I'm not saying there's not a bug in CreateServiceW, but as it stands,
> > we don't get a failure.
>
> You can try for yourself at the following link:
> http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/windows/bonjourforwindows.html
>
> Or try iTunes v7.6 directly.
>
> It could also be that it never calls CreateService for some reason,
> I'm not 100% sure.

I already have tried it; that's how I know the call doesn't fail.  Yes
it does call CreateService.  All the error paths in
ITERATE_InstallService have ERRs, so you'd see it if it did fail.

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi James,

2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:39 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > Hi James,
> >
> > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > On Feb 17, 2008 11:16 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > Hi James,
> > > >
> > > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista, and
> > > > > > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > > > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > > > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > > > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it is
> > > > > > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > > > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > > > > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > > > > > to?
> > > > > > Keys like:
> > > > > > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > > > > > ImagePath="C:...."
> > > > > > Start=0x00000002
> > > > > > Description="....."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > > > > > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > > > > > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > > > > > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > > > > > the service. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> > > > > get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> > > > > don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> > > > > (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> > > > > start.)
> > > >
> > > > There is a big difference. Without it it will abort installation
> > > > because the bonjour service fails to start. With it it will start but
> > > > immediately crash, however that happens after start so installation
> > > > happily continues. The effect is that installer will continue. I don't
> > > > see how it can be fine if it fails to create the appropiate registry
> > > > keys.
> > >
> > > I'm not saying it's not.  I'm saying that the call to CreateService
> > > doesn't fail, or you'd get an err, like I said before.
> > > service = CreateServiceW(hscm, name, disp, GENERIC_ALL, serv_type,
> > >                          start_type, err_control, file->TargetPath,
> > >                          load_order, NULL, NULL, serv_name, pass);
> > > if (!service)
> > > {
> > >     if (GetLastError() != ERROR_SERVICE_EXISTS)
> > >         ERR("Failed to create service %s: %d\n", debugstr_w(name),
> > >
> > > GetLastError());
> > >     }
> > >
> > > I'm not saying there's not a bug in CreateServiceW, but as it stands,
> > > we don't get a failure.
> >
> > You can try for yourself at the following link:
> > http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/windows/bonjourforwindows.html
> >
> > Or try iTunes v7.6 directly.
> >
> > It could also be that it never calls CreateService for some reason,
> > I'm not 100% sure.
>
> I already have tried it; that's how I know the call doesn't fail.  Yes
> it does call CreateService.  All the error paths in
> ITERATE_InstallService have ERRs, so you'd see it if it did fail.

It could be that it fails with a parameter error and then exits
silently, those paths are not covered.

On a slightly related note: Do you know if the hardware drivers are
installed somewhere? I would be interested in getting iTunes syncing
to my ipod touch (similar to iphone). I didn't see anything in my
wineprefix after installation.

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[Robert Shearman]

Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> On a slightly related note: Do you know if the hardware drivers are
> installed somewhere? I would be interested in getting iTunes syncing
> to my ipod touch (similar to iphone). I didn't see anything in my
> wineprefix after installation.

I don't know about the iPod Touch and iPhone, but iPods are USB mass 
storage devices in Windows and so don't require any device drivers.

iTunes 4.x communicated with an iPod using DeviceIoControl(..., 
IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH, ...) and DeviceIoControl(..., 
IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT, ...), but only after doing a whole bunch 
of low-level calls using setupapi and other ioctls to find the device.

The 4.x versions of iTunes did install a driver for the CD burning 
functionality, however.

Good luck, but bear in mind that any hard work done on iTunes may need 
to re-done in 3-6 months time when the next version of iTunes comes out.

iTunes

[Travis Watkins]

On Feb 18, 2008 5:41 AM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> On a slightly related note: Do you know if the hardware drivers are
> installed somewhere? I would be interested in getting iTunes syncing
> to my ipod touch (similar to iphone). I didn't see anything in my
> wineprefix after installation.

You'll want to look for iTunesMobileDevice.dll, not a driver. The
whole thing is just a proprietary USB protocol.

iTunes

[Edward Savage]

Why are we interested in iTunes? There seem to be plenty of alternatives
available.

Or are we talking about ipod compatibility specifically, as there are no
viable alternatives to iTunes for syncing.

Edward

On Feb 18, 2008 3:11 PM, James Hawkins  wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Maarten Lankhorst 
> wrote:
> > 2008/2/17, James Hawkins :
> > > On Feb 17, 2008 9:42 PM, Maarten Lankhorst
>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > >
> > > > Christopher Harvey wrote:
> > > > > What needs to get done for iTunes to work?
> > > >
> > > > v7.6 basically works if you set windows version to windows vista,
>
> and
> > > > find out why the installer fails to create the 'Bonjour service'
> > > > registry stuff properly.
> > > >
> > > > I submitted 8 or so stub dll's to wine-patches that make iTunes v7.6
> > > > actually start after installation. It checks for the dll's and
> > > > silently fails if they don't exist.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't done any further testing yet though, but it looks like it
>
> is
> > > > probably a small installer bug that prevents itunes v7.6 from
> > > > installing without first manually creating those registry keys.
> > >
> > > The Bonjour service depends on the tcpip service.  As far as I know,
> > > we don't provide that service.  What registry keys are you referring
> > > to?
> >
> > Keys like:
> > In HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Bonjour Service:
> > ImagePath="C:...."
> > Start=0x00000002
> > Description="....."
> >
> > Those are not created during install. If I manually add them the
> > 'bonjour service' will report success on start, but actually crash
> > right after. However it is enough to satisfy the itunes installer.
> > Without those it will report failure without even attempting to start
> > the service. :-)
>
> hmm according to the logs, the service is installed just fine.  You'd
> get an err otherwise.  The dependencies aren't listed, but since we
> don't have the tcpip service anyway, it won't make a difference
> (though that might be why it crashes when you get the service to
> start.)
>
> --
> James Hawkins

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi Edward,

2008/2/17, Edward Savage :
> Why are we interested in iTunes? There seem to be plenty of alternatives
> available.
>
> Or are we talking about ipod compatibility specifically, as there are no
> viable alternatives to iTunes for syncing.

Because this is a project that runs windows apps in linux, instead of
writing alternatives for it? ;-)

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[Edward Savage]

Maarten why not focus on supporting applications that don't have viable open
source solutions first? I can think of hundreds.

The only thing iTunes will add, with full support, is ipod syncing (that
isn't useless).

Or should we avoid that debate?

On Feb 18, 2008 3:18 PM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> Hi Edward,
>
> 2008/2/17, Edward Savage :
> > Why are we interested in iTunes? There seem to be plenty of alternatives
> > available.
> >
> > Or are we talking about ipod compatibility specifically, as there are no
> > viable alternatives to iTunes for syncing.
>
> Because this is a project that runs windows apps in linux, instead of
> writing alternatives for it? ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Maarten.

iTunes

[Stefan Dösinger]

Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 06:34:04 schrieb Edward Savage:
> Maarten why not focus on supporting applications that don't have viable
> open source solutions first? I can think of hundreds.
>
> The only thing iTunes will add, with full support, is ipod syncing (that
> isn't useless).
>
> Or should we avoid that debate?

I think it would probably be better not to debate, but the issue is this: For 
you there are viable itunes alternatives, and for you there are other 
applications which do not have alternatives. Compare this to the discussions 
wether working on Microsoft Office is a waste of time or not. Everyone has 
other expectations, so it is *very* hard to judge which application will be 
useful and which not.

In the same way the usefullness of $APP in Wine differs from person to person. 
A bug which is worth a small remark on a review for one person is a killer 
bug for another.

To come back to iTunes, I have met a few people who considered Linux but were 
stopped by iTunes for various reasons. Some may seem laughable to tech-savy 
people(Other apps look differently), some are technically reasonable(iTunes 
shop, DRM support). Of couse you can find 100 reasons why AutoCAD is more 
important than iTunes, but you can also find 100 reasons why iTunes is more 
important than ACAD

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

2008/2/18, Stefan Dösinger :
> Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 06:34:04 schrieb Edward Savage:
> > Maarten why not focus on supporting applications that don't have viable
> > open source solutions first? I can think of hundreds.
> >
> > The only thing iTunes will add, with full support, is ipod syncing (that
> > isn't useless).
> >
> > Or should we avoid that debate?
>
> I think it would probably be better not to debate, but the issue is this: For
> you there are viable itunes alternatives, and for you there are other
> applications which do not have alternatives. Compare this to the discussions
> wether working on Microsoft Office is a waste of time or not. Everyone has
> other expectations, so it is *very* hard to judge which application will be
> useful and which not.
>
> In the same way the usefullness of $APP in Wine differs from person to person.
> A bug which is worth a small remark on a review for one person is a killer
> bug for another.
>
> To come back to iTunes, I have met a few people who considered Linux but were
> stopped by iTunes for various reasons. Some may seem laughable to tech-savy
> people(Other apps look differently), some are technically reasonable(iTunes
> shop, DRM support). Of couse you can find 100 reasons why AutoCAD is more
> important than iTunes, but you can also find 100 reasons why iTunes is more
> important than ACAD

Well I bought an ipod touch. But there are no other apps then iTunes
that can do the firmware upload so it's sort of laying on my desk
until I can figure it out. That aside, the alternatives rely on
tactics that are similar to loading malware. Real alternatives for
iTunes? Not so much.

Cheers,
Maarten.

iTunes

[Edward Savage]

Does iTunes sync with devices when being run under xp in qemu or similiar?

I honestly haven't updated my ipod for a year and don't use it any
more as i haven't found a viable and easy way to do it.  Maarten will
probably be interested in the answer as well.

On Feb 19, 2008 10:02 AM, Maarten Lankhorst  wrote:
> 2008/2/18, Stefan Dösinger :
> > Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 06:34:04 schrieb Edward Savage:
> > > Maarten why not focus on supporting applications that don't have viable
> > > open source solutions first? I can think of hundreds.
> > >
> > > The only thing iTunes will add, with full support, is ipod syncing (that
> > > isn't useless).
> > >
> > > Or should we avoid that debate?
> >
> > I think it would probably be better not to debate, but the issue is this: For
> > you there are viable itunes alternatives, and for you there are other
> > applications which do not have alternatives. Compare this to the discussions
> > wether working on Microsoft Office is a waste of time or not. Everyone has
> > other expectations, so it is *very* hard to judge which application will be
> > useful and which not.
> >
> > In the same way the usefullness of $APP in Wine differs from person to person.
> > A bug which is worth a small remark on a review for one person is a killer
> > bug for another.
> >
> > To come back to iTunes, I have met a few people who considered Linux but were
> > stopped by iTunes for various reasons. Some may seem laughable to tech-savy
> > people(Other apps look differently), some are technically reasonable(iTunes
> > shop, DRM support). Of couse you can find 100 reasons why AutoCAD is more
> > important than iTunes, but you can also find 100 reasons why iTunes is more
> > important than ACAD
>
> Well I bought an ipod touch. But there are no other apps then iTunes
> that can do the firmware upload so it's sort of laying on my desk
> until I can figure it out. That aside, the alternatives rely on
> tactics that are similar to loading malware. Real alternatives for
> iTunes? Not so much.
>
> Cheers,
> Maarten.

iTunes

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi Edward,

2008/2/18, Edward Savage :
> Does iTunes sync with devices when being run under xp in qemu or similiar?
>
> I honestly haven't updated my ipod for a year and don't use it any
> more as i haven't found a viable and easy way to do it.  Maarten will
> probably be interested in the answer as well.

It might run under vmplayer 2.0 if you add EHCI.present = "TRUE" to
your config file. However iTunes doesn't seem to really like it and
bombs out with an error in XP. (0xE8000001)

Cheers,
Maarten.