Getting Wine's PO files on Launchpad

[Francois Gouget]

Launchpad has a PO file translation website. This makes it easier for 
non-developpers to contribute and review translations.

https://translations.launchpad.net/

So what would it take to get Wine's PO files on Launchpad?

* Launchpad tracks who translated what string and if we choose the 
   'Closed' permissions model only approved translators can update the 
   translations. So that means we should be able to get patches with 
   full attribution.
   https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies

* Launchpad would need to pull updated PO files from Wine regularly. 
   Ideally that would be automatic and happen daily (both to account 
   for translations happening outside Launchpad and to take changes in 
   the resource files into account quickly).
   https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations

* Conversely Launchpad should submit patches back to Wine. Ideally that 
   would be automated as much as possible but I'm fuzzy on the details 
   here (especially on how to preserve attribution). As for the 
   periodicity, maybe the best would be weekly or just before Alexandre 
   makes a release.
   https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports
   https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PartialPOExport

[Scott Ritchie]

On 09/04/2011 03:26 PM, Francois Gouget wrote:
> - Launchpad would need to pull updated PO files from Wine regularly. 
> Ideally that would be automatic and happen daily (both to account 
> for translations happening outside Launchpad and to take changes in 
> the resource files into account quickly).
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations

Launchpad already has a bzr branch for Wine that we should use here (via
bzr-git imports) rather than messing with manual tarball uploads.

https://launchpad.net/wine

You can, for instance, do bzr get lp:wine  (at least on an ubuntu machine)

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

[Michael Stefaniuc]

Francois Gouget wrote:
> Launchpad has a PO file translation website. This makes it easier for 
> non-developpers to contribute and review translations.
>
> https://translations.launchpad.net/
>
> So what would it take to get Wine's PO files on Launchpad?

Permission to relicense the existing translations with a BSD license...
https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate#Licensing_your_t...
The license itself is sane but it will require quite some work and time
to accomplish the relicensing.

The other probably more important thing is copyright assignment;
launchpad is infamous for that. Would potential translators need to sign
one of those? I didn't see that on a quick look but if it is required
that is a blocker IMHO.
> -
>
> Launchpad tracks who translated what string and if we choose the 
> 'Closed' permissions model only approved translators can update the 
> translations. So that means we should be able to get patches with 
> full attribution.
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies
> -
>
> Launchpad would need to pull updated PO files from Wine regularly. 
> Ideally that would be automatic and happen daily (both to account 
> for translations happening outside Launchpad and to take changes in 
> the resource files into account quickly).
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
> -
>
> Conversely Launchpad should submit patches back to Wine. Ideally that 
> would be automated as much as possible but I'm fuzzy on the details 
> here (especially on how to preserve attribution). As for the 
> periodicity, maybe the best would be weekly or just before Alexandre 
> makes a release.
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PartialPOExport

bye
    michael

[Ferenc Gergely Szilagyi]

Hello,

the LP Translation FAQ writes:
"I have no problem with BSD myself, but I also uploaded translations from
upstream. What do I do?
As long as the uploads were marked as translations that were published
elsewhere, they fall under a separate copyright regime: those imports will
retain their original copyright license. The BSD licence only applies to
translations that are (as far as the system knows) original to Launchpad."

Regards,
Ferenc Gergely Szilagyi

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
> Francois Gouget wrote:
> > Launchpad has a PO file translation website. This makes it easier for
> > non-developpers to contribute and review translations.
> >
> > https://translations.launchpad.net/
> >
> > So what would it take to get Wine's PO files on Launchpad?
>
> Permission to relicense the existing translations with a BSD license...
>
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate#Licensing_your_t...
> The license itself is sane but it will require quite some work and time
> to accomplish the relicensing.
>
> The other probably more important thing is copyright assignment;
> launchpad is infamous for that. Would potential translators need to sign
> one of those? I didn't see that on a quick look but if it is required
> that is a blocker IMHO.
> > - Launchpad tracks who translated what string and if we choose the
> > 'Closed' permissions model only approved translators can update the
> > translations. So that means we should be able to get patches with
> > full attribution.
>
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies
> > - Launchpad would need to pull updated PO files from Wine regularly.
> > Ideally that would be automatic and happen daily (both to account
> > for translations happening outside Launchpad and to take changes in
> > the resource files into account quickly).
>
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
> > - Conversely Launchpad should submit patches back to Wine. Ideally that
> > would be automated as much as possible but I'm fuzzy on the details
> > here (especially on how to preserve attribution). As for the
> > periodicity, maybe the best would be weekly or just before Alexandre
> > makes a release.
> > https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports
> > https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PartialPOExport
>
> bye
>         michael

[Henri Verbeet]

On 5 September 2011 10:38, Michael Stefaniuc  wrote:
> Permission to relicense the existing translations with a BSD license...
> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate#Licensing_your_t...
> The license itself is sane but it will require quite some work and time
> to accomplish the relicensing.

While BSD is an acceptable license, I can't say I'm really a fan, or
that it's something I'd like to encourage. I'm probably the only one
with that opinion though, and not much of a translator.

[Scott Ritchie]

On 09/05/2011 04:46 AM, Henri Verbeet wrote:
> On 5 September 2011 10:38, Michael Stefaniuc  wrote:
> > Permission to relicense the existing translations with a BSD license...
> > https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate#Licensing_your_t...
> > The license itself is sane but it will require quite some work and time
> > to accomplish the relicensing.
>
> While BSD is an acceptable license, I can't say I'm really a fan, or
> that it's something I'd like to encourage. I'm probably the only one
> with that opinion though, and not much of a translator.

I think the technical reason for this is that launchpad has a growing
intelligence about suggested translations built on its evergrowing
database of translations.  That requires a permissive license for its
new translations, since the suggestions could be applied to different
projects that might fall under different copyrights.

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

[Austin English]

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:30, Scott Ritchie  wrote:
> On 09/05/2011 04:46 AM, Henri Verbeet wrote:
> > On 5 September 2011 10:38, Michael Stefaniuc  wrote:
> > > Permission to relicense the existing translations with a BSD license...
> > > https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate#Licensing_your_t...
> > > The license itself is sane but it will require quite some work and time
> > > to accomplish the relicensing.
> >
> > While BSD is an acceptable license, I can't say I'm really a fan, or
> > that it's something I'd like to encourage. I'm probably the only one
> > with that opinion though, and not much of a translator.
>
> I think the technical reason for this is that launchpad has a growing
> intelligence about suggested translations built on its evergrowing
> database of translations.  That requires a permissive license for its
> new translations, since the suggestions could be applied to different
> projects that might fall under different copyrights.

There's at least one other option:
http://translationproject.org/html/welcome.html

[Francois Gouget]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011, Austin English wrote:
[...]
> There's at least one other option:
> http://translationproject.org/html/welcome.html

It does not look like they make it possible to translate online. They 
seem to be more like a repository for PO files. So it seems less 
translator friendly and not as 'modern' as Launchpad.

The upside is that it does not look like they try to automatically 
suggest translations from other projects so there may be less copyright 
issues from this side. However the web site is not clear on copyright 
issues, except for pushing translators to disclaim the copyright on 
their work.

http://translationproject.org/html/whydisclaim.html

They also strongly discourage projects from accepting translations from 
other sources that the translation project. I don't think we want to 
introduce such a limitation in Wine so if their translators share that 
point of view it could cause a clash.

http://translationproject.org/html/maintainers.html

But Launchpage is certainly not the only option. We could set up our own 
Pootle server for instance.

http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/features

A number of projects do so.
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/live_servers

An advantage is that we would be in control of the policies and 
copyright management. The drawback is that it requires more effort for 
translators as they would have to create yet another account just for 
Wine.

All these options are also not necessarily mutually exclusive either 
(though it raises coordination issues if a given language is worked 
on on two sites).

[André Hentschel]

Am 07.09.2011 12:43, schrieb Francois Gouget:
> But Launchpage is certainly not the only option. We could set up our own 
> Pootle server for instance.
>
> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/features
>
> A number of projects do so.
> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/live_servers
>
> An advantage is that we would be in control of the policies and 
> copyright management. The drawback is that it requires more effort for 
> translators as they would have to create yet another account just for 
> Wine.

Too bad that openid for pootle seems to be an old gsoc idea, but no one took it:
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/developers/gsoc2008_ideas#pootle_openi...

[Aric Stewart]

So Newman and I just got a Pootle server setup for CrossOver 
translations and I was going to talk here about putting winehq's po 
files up on it also.

I am still just getting use to admin for pootle, and I am not sure if i 
can get it hooked up directly to git or not.  But if people are 
interested in the idea I am happy to admin the pootle install (since I 
am doing it anyway for the CrossOver stuff)

-aric

On 9/7/11 7:24 AM, André Hentschel wrote:
> Am 07.09.2011 12:43, schrieb Francois Gouget:
> > But Launchpage is certainly not the only option. We could set up our own
> > Pootle server for instance.
> >
> > http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/features
> >
> > A number of projects do so.
> > http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/live_servers
> >
> > An advantage is that we would be in control of the policies and
> > copyright management. The drawback is that it requires more effort for
> > translators as they would have to create yet another account just for
> > Wine.
>
> Too bad that openid for pootle seems to be an old gsoc idea, but no one took it:
> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/developers/gsoc2008_ideas#pootle_openi...

[Francois Gouget]

I've had a discussion about getting Wine's PO files online with Andrej 
Znidarsic and thought it would be interesting to share it here (with his 
permission):

Andrej Znidarsic wrote:
> I have just discussed some details about how translations in Launchpad 
> work. Basically there is no direct traceability on the commit level, 
> since each export is done by launchpad not individual translators. 
> Exports generally look like this - 
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-pot-precise/changes
>
> However on Launchpad it's possible to see which strings were 
> translated by which translator (an example is here - 
> https://translations.launchpad.net/stk/trunk/+pots/supertuxkart/sl/+filter?p...) 
> and if "translator credits" string exists in the .pot file, names of 
> all launchpad contributors are automatically exported and are 
> displayed in "About" window as can be seen here - 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1450316/gbrainy.png (first name is from Gnome 
> upstream and the rest are Launchpad contributors). Names of all 
> Launchpad contributors are also listed on the package case (you can 
> see an example here - 
> https://translations.launchpad.net/stk/trunk/+pots/supertuxkart/sl/+translat...)
>
> If that is good enough then Launchpad is in my opinion a very 
> attractive solution as community of translators is already quite 
> large. I also discussed this on #ubuntu-translators and people are 
> generally quite interested in having wine available in Launchpad and 
> would very likely contribute to wine translations if they were 
> available. They would also be willing to help setting up the import 
> and export, so let me know if you (as a wine developer community) are 
> interested in it.
> From what I took out of WineConf, the problem with that is that we need

to be able to trace every Wine commit to a specific person. So tracing 
it to something like 'Launchpad French Translation Team' would not be 
good enough. I thought there was a Launchpad API that we could use to 
remotely access the Launchpad data and build our patches ourselves but 
apparently that's not the case:

Andrej Znidarsic wrote:
> As far as i know there is no such API available (yet). You can only 
> review who is responsible for what in package details (example for 
> supertuxkart game and Slovenian language can be seen here - 
> https://translations.launchpad.net/stk/trunk/+pots/supertuxkart/sl/+details).

Does anyone know if progress or new insight has been gained on this?
(or on integrating Wine with other online translation systems)