May 2003 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Shachar Shemesh

Mike Hearn wrote: >Unfortunately, it seems KWQ is mostly MacOS specific. It's written in >Objective C++, a language I didn't even suspect the existance of until I >read the sources. Example: > > ... >As if C++ wasn't hard enough to read already! > > On a 100% unrelated note, and since this list does not have LKML's faschist charter, I'll go really OT and mention that Objective-C was developed parallel to C++, so any attempts to claim that it was redundant are a little hind-site oriented. Major IIRC disclaimer here, of course. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Open Source integration consultant Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Mark Westcott

The AtheOS guy de Qt ised KTHML a while back: http://www.atheos.cx/news.php3 search for KHTML. I can't find the source at the moment though. This is probably already widley out of date. I agree with Dimi however that stubbs are gonna be the way to go however, maintaining a port isn't going to be much fun. Having said that KHTML/KJs is a lot neater/smaller code than mozilla/gecko. Mark (goes to have his hair cut)

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Dimitrie O. Paun

On 28 May 2003, Mike Hearn wrote: > Unfortunately, it seems KWQ is mostly MacOS specific. It's written in > Objective C++, a language I didn't even suspect the existance of until I > read the sources. Example: > > QListBox::~QListBox() > { > NSTableView *tableView = [(NSScrollView *)getView() documentView]; > [tableView setDelegate:nil]; > [tableView setDataSource:nil]; > [_items release]; > } Gee! I've heard about it before, people saying is so much easier than C++. Yeah, right! > Luckily, most of the files are small, in fact some are about 2-3k, of > which most is the boilerplate header (seems to be a pretty liberal > license). Important point is if it's compatible with the LGPL. Can we use stuff from it in Wine? -- Dimi.

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Dimitrie O. Paun

On 28 May 2003, Mike Hearn wrote: > Running through 3 translation layers is going to suck though. > > KHTML -> KWQ -> Wine -> Linux I don't think it's all that bad. Currently we have: KHTML -> WebCore -> Cocoa or KHTML -> QT -> Linux I don't think KWQ will add much overhead, it's going to be essentially: KHTML -> Wine -> Linux And I don't think QT/X11 is all that much faster than Wine. > Bearing in mind KWQ would have to provide a pthreads wrapper around > win32, then have win32 mapped back onto pthreads - ouch! But we do integrate with pthreads right now, it should just work, no? -- Dimi.

May 28, 2003

Working a bit with installers

by Carlos Lozano

Hello, I have been playing a bit with a installer what the background appears above of the window what you must press "NEXT>>", what you can't select. It worked only using "Managed" = "No". Changing the line: dlls/x11drv/windows.c inline static BOOL is_window_managed( WND *win ) { if (!managed_mode) return FALSE; /* tray window is always managed */ if (win->dwExStyle & WS_EX_TRAYWINDOW) return TRUE; /* child windows are not managed */ if (win->dwStyle & WS_CHILD) return FALSE; /* tool windows are not managed */ if (win->dwExStyle & WS_EX_TOOLWINDOW) return FALSE; /* windows with caption or thick frame are managed */ if ((win->dwStyle & WS_CAPTION) == WS_CAPTION) return TRUE; if (win->dwStyle & WS_THICKFRAME) return TRUE; /* default: not managed */ return FALSE; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ with return TRUE; It is possible install (at least in my case) the program even in managed mode. Regards, Carlos. -- ___ _ \ | / Consulting | . |._ _ _| | ___ ___ ___ http://www.andago.com | || ' |/ . |<_> |/ . |/ . \__ GNU/Linux |_|_||_|_|\___|<___|\_. |\___/ _ \ __|\ \ / Carlos A. Lozano <___'/ | \ -_) __/\__ \ > < -_) [ carlos.lozano(a)andago.com ]\___|_| ____/ _/\_\___| [ calb(a)epsxe.com ] http://www.ePSXe.com

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Mike Hearn

> You guys are nuts! :) Who is going to maintain all this. This is a > *large* project. Look at Mozilla for crying out loud, a full blown > HTML/JS/etc. engine will easily double the size/scope of Wine. (broken my promise already <sigh> :) I only said fork cos I don't think the KHTML team would accept bug-for-bug compatability patches with IE. I guess they might, they seem more liberal about it than the Gecko team (wrongly imho, but useful here). Anyway, as to maintainership, this is a good question. But how comes adding a clone of IE is nuts, but the rest of Wine is sane, hmm? :) This whole thing is completely crazy to some extent, but here we are in 2003 with two companies working on Wine and many volunteers.... it would probably require a D3D style dedicated team to work on it though, which so far doesn't exist. And I don't think a web engine would be double the size/scope of Wine, that's exagguration. Wine by definition has a massive scope.... there's no denying that IE is a part of the APIs now, too many apps rely on it being there. Maybe when Red Hat try and sell to the corporate desktop and run into this problem they will help.... wishful thinking perhaps. > Stubbing is the only solution IMO. Sure, it's either that or rewrite KHTML. And I think geckos code is too big to use :( > BTW, I knew about that project, > I email with the guy a bit, he didn't seem to understand some things, > even though I tried hard to explain. Like for example he wanted to > implement everything (controls, etc.) on top of GDI because the > standard controls are bloated and slow... Heh! I gave up. Obviously, > with that approach I didn't expect him to get too far. Hmm. Double suck. I guess we're back to square one then. Unless Ender has done a lot more work than we are imagining. -- Mike Hearn <m.hearn(a)signal.qinetiq.com> QinetiQ - Malvern Technology Center

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Mike Hearn

> Any current efforts to port WebCore to Win32? Or it's maybe easier > to create a WinCode? BTW, any idea how big this effort is? In a minute I'll get on with some work and stop spamming everyone. One last thing, the WebCore framework isn't what we're interested in, we want KWQ (pronounced quack apparently) which is what maps Qt -> MacOS. Unfortunately, it seems KWQ is mostly MacOS specific. It's written in Objective C++, a language I didn't even suspect the existance of until I read the sources. Example: QListBox::~QListBox() { NSTableView *tableView = [(NSScrollView *)getView() documentView]; [tableView setDelegate:nil]; [tableView setDataSource:nil]; [_items release]; } As if C++ wasn't hard enough to read already! KWQ consists of 296 files, might as well call it 300. These cover a part of the Qt classes and also the KDE ones. Quite a few are simply stubs: int QXmlParseException::lineNumber() const { ERROR("not yet implemented"); return 0; } Luckily, most of the files are small, in fact some are about 2-3k, of which most is the boilerplate header (seems to be a pretty liberal license). Some parts, like KWKQURL (i kid you not, that is the name of the class) look pretty reusable. Other parts are heavily reliant upon the NeXTStep APIs. Basically porting it to Win32 would be a major piece of work. KWQ itself is a large effort. I'm not sure why Apple didn't simply license Qt for its developers, then bind it into Objective-C in the traditional way. That would surely have been simpler than duplicating all this code from Qt. Perhaps the idea that the cost of Qt is insignificant next to developer time, as espoused lately by some KDE devs, is flawed? Or maybe it was needed to get good bindings into their Cocoa framework (sounds unlikely but possible). Anyway. I'm guessing that porting this would be the first step, if KHTML was used. thanks -mike (goes back to work) -- Mike Hearn <m.hearn(a)signal.qinetiq.com> QinetiQ - Malvern Technology Center

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Dimitrie O. Paun

On 28 May 2003, Mike Hearn wrote: > Rereading Enders email I can't quite decide if he stubbed Qt out in > order to get it running on Win32 or not.... if we were to track KHTML > CVS, stubs would be the only solution, but as it might need to be forked ^^^^^^ You guys are nuts! :) Who is going to maintain all this. This is a *large* project. Look at Mozilla for crying out loud, a full blown HTML/JS/etc. engine will easily double the size/scope of Wine. Stubbing is the only solution IMO. BTW, I knew about that project, I email with the guy a bit, he didn't seem to understand some things, even though I tried hard to explain. Like for example he wanted to implement everything (controls, etc.) on top of GDI because the standard controls are bloated and slow... Heh! I gave up. Obviously, with that approach I didn't expect him to get too far. -- Dimi.

May 28, 2003

Re: Agent crashes when sending article

by Rein Klazes

On Wed, 28 May 2003 14:42:41 +0200, you wrote: > On Wed, 28 May 2003 12:06:45 +0200, Rein Klazes <rklazes(a)xs4all.nl> wrote: > > >The attached patch corrects the behaviour to what I see under Windows. > > > >Please give it a try. > > Unfortunately I sent my previous mail to early. Agent just crashed again when > sending email. I have to see if I can find a reliable scenario because it > seems that at least the one with sending to a non-existing newsgroup now seems > to work. I'll check that again as soon as I have more time. The backtrace should be different in this case. If you could post that. Rein. -- Rein Klazes rklazes(a)xs4all.nl

May 28, 2003

Re: Wine folks interested in a CHM spec?

by Mike Hearn

> The project seems to have died around jan/feb of this year, Correction, it seems despite first appearances the project was never born. Its CVS tree is empty. Suckage. Rereading Enders email I can't quite decide if he stubbed Qt out in order to get it running on Win32 or not.... if we were to track KHTML CVS, stubs would be the only solution, but as it might need to be forked anyway actually de-Qt'ing is another possibility. Ender, could you give more details about how you got it running on win32? -- Mike Hearn <m.hearn(a)signal.qinetiq.com> QinetiQ - Malvern Technology Center

May 28, 2003