December 2005 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: [Bug 4146] first run usability

by Lionel Ulmer

On Sun, Dec 25, 2005 at 09:47:39PM +0100, wino(a)piments.com wrote: > Does someone want to reign in this fuck-wit before she pisses of the whole > community? Well, tell this to Alexandre as he removed the '-h' stuff some time ago (we got more cases of people having problem with the 'wine foo.exe -- -a -b' syntax than with the '-h' problem). As for the 'Start Menu', it's a packaging issue, not really a Wine issue per se. And finally, why should we prevent people from running Wine as root ? I played the complete MI3 game as root (to have DGA support) and it worked just fine :-) I still have problem with this whole discussion(s): people who do not know Linux should never use a command line window and should do everything from the start / run / foot / ... menu from their favourite distribution. If someone starts Wine from the command line, I certainly expects him/her to be at least knowledgeable enough in how Linux works. So effort should be spent on Desktop integration instead of futile stuff like adding '-h' help message or a 'running as root' protection. > Make of it what you like, I'm tired of pissing into the wind. See you all > in 10 years time for 1.0 Yup, maybe by then we will see some patches too instead of just rants ? Lionel -- Lionel Ulmer - http://www.bbrox.org/

Dec. 25, 2005

Re: [Bug 4146] first run usability

by wino＠piments.com

Does someone want to reign in this fuck-wit before she pisses of the whole community? How can this be a dupe of a meta bug ?! The meta is supposed to regroup all such minor bugs. That's why it was created. You say you want feedback, suggestions and bug reports yet this is what happens to constructive input. Open source is about "if it does not do what you want , help fix it". This comment indicates that once again she has not even read the fucking bug before dismissing it . May be you need to make ppl pass an english comprehension test before letting them edit bug reports. Thanks fuck this nerd gets off on ranting on mailing lists, in real life she could do damage , well probably not actually, that's what it's all about. Make of it what you like, I'm tired of pissing into the wind. See you all in 10 years time for 1.0 Best of luck to the majority who have put in all the hard work in creating a potencially excellent tool and dont think they're god's gift because of it. I'm currently helping 5 first time user get used to Linux, my time will be better spent there. Special thanks to Rob for the help he has given me. On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:13:16 +0100, Wine Bugs <wine-bugs(a)winehq.org> wrote: > http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4146 > > > vitaliy(a)kievinfo.com changed: > > What |Removed |Added > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED > Resolution| |DUPLICATE > > > > > ------- Additional Comments From vitaliy(a)kievinfo.com 2005-25-12 10:13 > ------- > This is all belongs in the manual. There were numerous discussions about > this on > wine-devel. Wine is not Windows and we do not do things in windows ways. > It's ap > to packagers to create any link on the desktop or menu. > And Wine should not associate itself with *.exe files - again up to > packagers. > > *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 75 *** >

Dec. 25, 2005

Re:[wined3d] D3DXCreateFont

by Louis. Lenders

I had the same problem. Problem is they crash when version is set to win2000. The default windows version used to be win98 up to a few months ago, if you switch back to win98, the bug you describe is absent. Louis I've been using some dx9 tutorial/demo apps that use the d3dx9.dll. I got this dll off the net somewhere (d3dx9_27.dll to be exact). This is just a utility library that has some helper functions for D3D apps, like font rendering etc. Oliver has mentioned that he uses some of the same apps for testing wined3d, which is why I picked them (http://www.codesampler.com/dx9src.htm) However, about half of them call D3DXCreateFont, which always fails on my system. As such, the return font object is null and so the demo crashes shortly afterwards when it tries to call a member function through the null object. All of these demos just try to load the "Arial" font, which seems to be registered. I'm just curious how Oliver, and maybe others, are running these demos if they always crash at startup. The demos do pop up a message box like "D3DXCreateFont: failed!!!" or something like that, and after you click the "OK" button, the app continues anyways, and then crashes soon after. If anyone knows how to get around this font thing I'd very much like to know! Cheers, Aric ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Dec. 25, 2005

Fwd: Re: Building bridges by helping small ISVs

by wino＠piments.com

------- Forwarded message ------- From: peter(a)piments.com To: "Dan Kegel" <dank(a)kegel.com>, wine-devel <wine-devel(a)winehq.org> Subject: Re: Building bridges by helping small ISVs Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:53:17 +0100 On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:35:07 +0100, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote: > It's frustrating that large software vendors (Adobe, > Intuit, Macromedia, IBM) aren't paying much attention > to Wine, even though Wine's the quickest way for them > to reach the Linux desktop market. I've been trying > to figure out why they're holding back. After talking > with a few large vendors and the folks working on the Munich > migration project, I got the distinct feeling that Wine > simply doesn't have a good reputation yet. > To cut through this negative fog, we need more evidence > that software vendors can succeed in the Linux market using Wine. > So, how do we get that, if the large vendors won't budge? > > One way would be to focus on the other end of the spectrum: > one-person software companies. There are so many of these > that Wine already supports some of them reasonably well. > I'd like to see the Wine community cultivate relationships > with these folks, and coax a few of them to support and promote > their apps on Linux using Wine. This will mean a lot > of hand-holding on our part, helping them test their apps > and file and fix Wine bugs they expose. > > What's in it for us? Lots of things: > a) the micro-ISVs we help will be a great source of bug reports and QA > b) some of them will turn into evangelists > c) their success will attract the larger ISVs that we're having > trouble with (e.g. Intuit, Macromedia, Adobe) who *will* > be able to contribute bugfixes (by hiring contractors) > d) they will increase the pool of apps available for desktop linux > > So, what am I doing about this? Well, I'm walking through the > lists of successful micro-isvs, trying out their apps, filing bugs > and helping resolve them, adding AppDB entries, > exchanging emails with micro-isvs that have expressed > an interest in working with Wine, and updating my > Wine for Windows ISVs page, http://kegel.com/wine/isv > > Like everything else associated with Wine, there's enough here to > keep dozens of people like me busy. I hope I can inspire > more folks to follow my example. If you're interested, please > jump in! And do consider taking part in my little isv mailing list > experiment, > http://groups.google.com/group/wine-isv ; I'm going to try to use > it as the place where I give ISVs special hand-holding. > - Dan > > -- > > > Good initiative, one suggestion: avoid terms like hand-holding, it's derogatory, try guidance. It may create a negative impact if one of the holdees gets invovled in this list and gets the impression you're being condecending. Could undo the good will you're trying to create. I am not at all surprised that major companies dont want to touch Wine with a long stick. It is only just out of alpha and the regression/breakage pattern does not seem to be a lot more stable than it was in alpha. Imagine a small amateur car workshop has come up with an impressive , revolutionary new engine that works... most of the time, but the prototype engines they produce sometimes just dont work. Would you expect UPS to be interested? Having said that , I think you idea is a good way forwards. Small companies like that have a very fast dev. cycle . I have a fairly complex windows app that worked well except for some fancy frame borders , I just turned them off by default. A big co. may take 6 months to process the idea before doing 30 mins work to make a change to the code. It would be good to fill out the app DB a bit. seesnz greetz.

Dec. 25, 2005

Re: debugging help

by James Liggett

On Sat, 2005-12-24 at 10:04 -0500, Robert Reif wrote: > I'm trying to help someone on wine-bugs > (http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4053) with a crash in a game. > > The problem is that the game is catching and displaying the exception. > It also appears that the game won't run in winedbg. > > Does anyone have any ideas on how to proceed from here. This is just an off guess, but maybe you could try using a win32 debugger under wine (something like IDA Pro might work here; you can find a demo version that will probably do what you need here: http://www.datarescue.be/downloaddemo.htm) You might get more stuff on the crash if you do that. I don't have this game, so I haven't tested it myself. Hope this helps. James

Dec. 24, 2005

Re: Building bridges by helping small ISVs

by peter＠piments.com

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:35:07 +0100, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote: > It's frustrating that large software vendors (Adobe, > Intuit, Macromedia, IBM) aren't paying much attention > to Wine, even though Wine's the quickest way for them > to reach the Linux desktop market. I've been trying > to figure out why they're holding back. After talking > with a few large vendors and the folks working on the Munich > migration project, I got the distinct feeling that Wine > simply doesn't have a good reputation yet. > To cut through this negative fog, we need more evidence > that software vendors can succeed in the Linux market using Wine. > So, how do we get that, if the large vendors won't budge? > > One way would be to focus on the other end of the spectrum: > one-person software companies. There are so many of these > that Wine already supports some of them reasonably well. > I'd like to see the Wine community cultivate relationships > with these folks, and coax a few of them to support and promote > their apps on Linux using Wine. This will mean a lot > of hand-holding on our part, helping them test their apps > and file and fix Wine bugs they expose. > > What's in it for us? Lots of things: > a) the micro-ISVs we help will be a great source of bug reports and QA > b) some of them will turn into evangelists > c) their success will attract the larger ISVs that we're having > trouble with (e.g. Intuit, Macromedia, Adobe) who *will* > be able to contribute bugfixes (by hiring contractors) > d) they will increase the pool of apps available for desktop linux > > So, what am I doing about this? Well, I'm walking through the > lists of successful micro-isvs, trying out their apps, filing bugs > and helping resolve them, adding AppDB entries, > exchanging emails with micro-isvs that have expressed > an interest in working with Wine, and updating my > Wine for Windows ISVs page, http://kegel.com/wine/isv > > Like everything else associated with Wine, there's enough here to > keep dozens of people like me busy. I hope I can inspire > more folks to follow my example. If you're interested, please > jump in! And do consider taking part in my little isv mailing list > experiment, > http://groups.google.com/group/wine-isv ; I'm going to try to use > it as the place where I give ISVs special hand-holding. > - Dan > > -- > > > Good initiative, one suggestion: avoid terms like hand-holding, it's derogatory, try guidance. It may create a negative impact if one of the holdees gets invovled in this list and gets the impression you're being condecending. Could undo the good will you're trying to create. I am not at all surprised that major companies dont want to touch Wine with a long stick. It is only just out of alpha and the regression/breakage pattern does not seem to be a lot more stable than it was in alpha. Imagine a small amateur car workshop has come up with an impressive , revolutionary new engine that works... most of the time, but the prototype engines they produce sometimes just dont work. Would you expect UPS to be interested? Having said that , I think you idea is a good way forwards. Small companies like that have a very fast dev. cycle . I have a fairly complex windows app that worked well except for some fancy frame borders , I just turned them off by default. A big co. may take 6 months to process the idea before doing 30 mins work to make a change to the code. It would be good to fill out the app DB a bit. seesnz greetz. -- Using Opera e-mail on Gentoo Linux

Dec. 24, 2005

Building bridges by helping small ISVs

by Dan Kegel

It's frustrating that large software vendors (Adobe, Intuit, Macromedia, IBM) aren't paying much attention to Wine, even though Wine's the quickest way for them to reach the Linux desktop market. I've been trying to figure out why they're holding back. After talking with a few large vendors and the folks working on the Munich migration project, I got the distinct feeling that Wine simply doesn't have a good reputation yet. To cut through this negative fog, we need more evidence that software vendors can succeed in the Linux market using Wine. So, how do we get that, if the large vendors won't budge? One way would be to focus on the other end of the spectrum: one-person software companies. There are so many of these that Wine already supports some of them reasonably well. I'd like to see the Wine community cultivate relationships with these folks, and coax a few of them to support and promote their apps on Linux using Wine. This will mean a lot of hand-holding on our part, helping them test their apps and file and fix Wine bugs they expose. What's in it for us? Lots of things: a) the micro-ISVs we help will be a great source of bug reports and QA b) some of them will turn into evangelists c) their success will attract the larger ISVs that we're having trouble with (e.g. Intuit, Macromedia, Adobe) who *will* be able to contribute bugfixes (by hiring contractors) d) they will increase the pool of apps available for desktop linux So, what am I doing about this? Well, I'm walking through the lists of successful micro-isvs, trying out their apps, filing bugs and helping resolve them, adding AppDB entries, exchanging emails with micro-isvs that have expressed an interest in working with Wine, and updating my Wine for Windows ISVs page, http://kegel.com/wine/isv Like everything else associated with Wine, there's enough here to keep dozens of people like me busy. I hope I can inspire more folks to follow my example. If you're interested, please jump in! And do consider taking part in my little isv mailing list experiment, http://groups.google.com/group/wine-isv ; I'm going to try to use it as the place where I give ISVs special hand-holding. - Dan --

Dec. 24, 2005

Re: Regression in MSI

by Sergei Rozhkov

Dec. 24, 2005

debugging help

by Robert Reif

I'm trying to help someone on wine-bugs (http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4053) with a crash in a game. The problem is that the game is catching and displaying the exception. It also appears that the game won't run in winedbg. Does anyone have any ideas on how to proceed from here.

Dec. 24, 2005

[bug 4004] MenuItemInfo vs GetMenuString - Try 2

by Ann & Jason Edmeades

>You don't check SetMenuItemInfo return code after the above calls and I very >much suspect that they fail leading to the observed results. Well spotted, thanks! In the one case of string -> ownerdraw you are right, and I have now modified the tests to flag a todo where this unexpectedly works on wine but fails on windows. In the case of ownerdraw -> string -> ownerdraw, the calls do indeed work and keep the saved string. Debugging on windows seems to show the string is copied and saved as well, which concurs with the rest of the patch. The fix (rather than the tests) is still accurate for this as far as I can tell. Attached is new patch, which checks the rc of the SetMenuItemInfo (and InsertMenuItem) calls... Changelog Copy and store the dwTypeData of a menu item even for a ownerdraw item, and ensure the memory allocations/freeing occurs correctly Jason

Dec. 24, 2005