March 2006 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: Direct3D, the kernel and ReactOS

by Christoph Frick

On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 08:29:03AM -0500, Kuba Ober wrote: > Technically sufficient, maybe, but it might be actually illegal to install > Direct X on anything non-windows. Might be or is? Or will be like dcom? At least with dcom ms made the point clear. they just dont provide it beside the os. but i can not remember a single game in my collection, that does came with the dx-package needed to run it (i hardly remember anything that came with dcom98.exe). so does anybody knows the actual license or is there anything known what ms has in mind in the near future? > I bet there are non-gaming 3D applications that use it. CAD systems > come to mind. I think that for example Solid Edge uses Direct X (no, > didn't try to get it running under wine yet). yeah i am sure there are lots of non-game applications that utilize directx - dsound for sound apps, d3d for cad, office, 3d, ... and so on. all in all i know close to nothing what goes on the various dlls - but from a point of view like this it seems to be a lot of work to redo the work of others if there is no real need for it, like e.g. accessing hardware or operating system stuff. license issues aside i would only a consider a massive performance gain something that is worth it (and there still remains the question, why is that original dll so much slower with the underlying framework then). and of course its a lot easier to implement something that is *cough* well documented than something that is totally unknown to mankind. -- cu

March 30, 2006

Re: [OT] Re: Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all.

by Tom Spear

On 3/29/06, Segin <segin2005(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Saulius Krasuckas wrote: > > * On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Karl Lattimer wrote: > > And also, accusing people of having an IQ of 0 for replying to a flame > isn't in the slightest constructive, > > Hardly. I have actually done something good. I got people to addresses the > Winetools problem a bit early. Sure, it would have gotten adressed anyways, > but only after enough complains come rolling in, months or years from now. > When I sent the flame, i had a purpose, a plan, and a hoped outcome. The end > result was nothing but good, so why shun me? I was just getting a matter > addressed before we have no choice but to address it. We can't just put it > off forever, you know. > It was already being addressed in the wine tools -> wine doors thread. So your flame (more like attack) did nothing good at all that wasnt already being done. Next time you have something that you want done (or addressed) just bring it up in a new thread, and dont be so rude about it. You will find a much more positive result (as opposed to 3 threads all going on about how bad of you it was to say what you said to the doc in private). I haven't written any patches, namely because my eariler code changes i find > cause signal 11. Recently I am working on something that will be offloaded > months from now (if i dont find it to be too fustrating) as a huge diff, so > keep your eyes peeled. If it doesn't work on either of my systems, it's > broken, and sending a diff is a waste of everybody's time. > I wouldn't do it in a huge diff. Break it up, because I have noticed that AJ usually wont commit huge diffs as is. Tom

March 30, 2006

Re: OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

by Tom Spear

On 3/29/06, Chris Morgan <chmorgan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to > wine-devel? How do we choose who gets to email people directly and > who doesn't? How do we filter the contents of their email? > > Segin doesn't speak for the entire community and he isn't a lead on > the project. If that were the case this would be a more serious > matter. If people quit because of him then what are we to do? Given > the lack of relationship between wine and Segin they might as well > have quit wine development because of some Nigerian money transfer > email or other spam. > > My point is that the solution isn't trying to enforce censorship where > you simply cannot and where it doesn't impact the community. As long > as he doesn't abuse his list membership we have no reason to become > involved in this issue. You won't find me supporting any kind of > restrictions on what he says or which mailing lists he can belong to > at this point in time. > > Chris > Ok, but here is a point for you to chew on. Say that I go on a business trip for my company, and that while on this trip, I meet with some clients, and we go out for a business dinner. A few days later, while still out of town, I run into those clients again, and we all decide to go to a billiard. While at said billiard we all start drinking. No problems there. But if I continue drinking, eventually I am going to get drunk, and need assistance getting back to my hotel room. Mind you I am on a business trip and with some clients, but I am not at a business meeting. Even though I am (at the time) not representing the company, it still looks bad for them that an employee would do that in front of the client. The same principle applies here. It looks bad on the wine project as a whole that someone who participates in the devel list would email someone (even off list) and say the things that were said. Ordinarily I am against censorship myself, but I do believe in moderation, and I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions even if they are speaking only for themself, if it makes other people or things look bad. To answer your question, there isnt really a way, and I wasnt trying to say that we should prevent him from emailing others directly, or filtering his emails, I was saying that a lot of the things he does for the project should be restricted. AFAICT he has some high level permissions on bugzilla, and the appdb. Maybe those could (should?) be suspended temporarily, I dunno, I will leave it up to the big wigs here to decide if he should be punished in any way, and if so, what that punishment should be. As I said though, it is his opinion, and he is entitled to that opinion (at least in the US), but I think he should have kept it to himself, or at least not used such strong wording like "****ing dumb***"....

March 30, 2006

Re: Direct3D, the kernel and ReactOS

by Kuba Ober

On Thursday 30 March 2006 06:51, Christoph Frick wrote: > On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 11:12:06PM +0200, Stefan Dösinger wrote: > > My long term suggestion is to move the Direct3D->OpenGL translation > > code from WineD3D to gdi and a win32k sys, and write ddraw.dll, > > d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll to use that interface. The user mode dlls can be > > shared with Reactos, and from a technical point of view, even > > Microsoft's DirectX dlls can be used on Wine(including the hardware > > emulation layer). > > first of all excuse my ignorance of the d3d interface and so on - but > this sounds to me like wine should not deal with the userland dlls at > all then? once all the hardware is handled in the kernel parts what is > the gain in having our own implementations? installing dx with the games > should be sufficient then? Technically sufficient, maybe, but it might be actually illegal to install Direct X on anything non-windows. Of course the blame is shifted to the user, but if one thinks about corporate wine deployments, they wouldn't want to do illegal things. They might as well deploy pirated Windows, you know. And mind you, Direct X is not for games only. I bet there are non-gaming 3D applications that use it. CAD systems come to mind. I think that for example Solid Edge uses Direct X (no, didn't try to get it running under wine yet). Cheers, Kuba

March 30, 2006

Re: advpack: Forward ExecuteCabA to its unicode counterpart

by Robert Shearman

James Hawkins wrote: >@@ -86,6 +87,43 @@ HRESULT WINAPI DoInfInstall(const SETUPC > > /*********************************************************************** > * ExecuteCabA (ADVPACK.@) >+ * >+ * See ExecuteCabW. >+ */ >+HRESULT WINAPI ExecuteCabA(HWND hwnd, CABINFOA* pCab, LPVOID pReserved) >+{ >+ UNICODE_STRING cab, inf, section; >+ CABINFOW cabinfo; >+ HRESULT hr; >+ >+ TRACE("(%p, %p, %p)\n", hwnd, pCab, pReserved); >+ >+ if (!pCab) >+ return E_INVALIDARG; >+ >+ RtlCreateUnicodeStringFromAsciiz(&cab, pCab->pszCab); > > pCab->pszCab can be NULL, right? I don't think RtlCreateUnicodeStringFromAsciiz handles that case in the way you expect. -- Rob Shearman

March 30, 2006

Re: Direct3D, the kernel and ReactOS

by Christoph Frick

On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 11:12:06PM +0200, Stefan Dösinger wrote: > My long term suggestion is to move the Direct3D->OpenGL translation > code from WineD3D to gdi and a win32k sys, and write ddraw.dll, > d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll to use that interface. The user mode dlls can be > shared with Reactos, and from a technical point of view, even > Microsoft's DirectX dlls can be used on Wine(including the hardware > emulation layer). first of all excuse my ignorance of the d3d interface and so on - but this sounds to me like wine should not deal with the userland dlls at all then? once all the hardware is handled in the kernel parts what is the gain in having our own implementations? installing dx with the games should be sufficient then? on the other hand, if the interface of the kernel parts is hardly documented why not stick with the current implementation that does a good job with what it does and implement/stub the kernel things once an app crashes? -- cu

March 30, 2006

Re: Improper message recursion revealed by recent desktop window changes

by Jesse Allen

On 3/29/06, Troy Rollo <wine(a)troy.rollo.name> wrote: > The recent changes to the desktop have revealed a problem with recursive > processing of X messages. The problem started to manifest with commit > 1a4f6e579b6aab685fae2e649fd5accee7ec0b4f (7th March). A symptom is a stack > that looks like this: > > <application Window procedure> > WINPROC_wrapper > ... > CallWindowProcW > ... > SendMessageW > X11DRV_SetWindowPos > SetWindowPos > X11DRV_ConfigureNotify > process_events > X11DRV_MsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx > wait_message_reply > send_inter_thread_message > SendMessageTimeoutW > SendMessageW > send_parent_notify > DestroyWindow > > In other words, a destroy notification is being sent to the parent window with > SendMessageW, and before that message returns an unrelated X message is > processed. Under Windows the equivalent could never happen - if a thread is > in SendMessage(), the only messages that can be delivered to it are ones sent > by SendMessage() from another thread. > > The consequences of this can be unpleasant if the code that processes (in this > case a window movement notification) the message interferes with state that > is being dealt with in earlier stack frames. Yep, that's why the launching of War3 seems to only paint explorer or the launch window depending on how I hacked wine. This is the problem exhibited in bugs 4948, 4897, and 4847. > > wait_message_reply calls X11DRV_MsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx with: > > res = USER_Driver->pMsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx( 1, &server_queue, > INFINITE, QS_ALLINPUT, 0 ); > > The brute-force approach of changing this to the following makes the > application work, but gives rise to some pack_message FIXMEs (for WM_NCPAINT > and WM_ERASEBKGND), and since this is an extremely sensitive piece of code to > change I thought it best left to people with more familiarity with it. > > -- > Troy Rollo - wine(a)troy.rollo.name > > > Last thing I did today was looking at the message passing and signal handling. The signal handling doesn't look any different than before. I figured something could be up with the message handling as it seemed one thread was stomping on another but I don't know anything about wineserver. I'll take a better look tomorrow! Jesse

March 30, 2006

Re: OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

by Hiji

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 7:31 pm, Hiji wrote: > > How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to > > wine-devel? How do we choose who gets to email people directly and > > who doesn't? How do we filter the contents of their email? > > I want to chime in and say that I'm with Tom and the ole Doc here. I don't > think there's any way to filter somebody's contents, but I think it's > important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line. Chris Morgan wrote: > Perhaps you didn't actually read the emails that were sent. This might > explain the discrepancy between your comment about "thinking its important > for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line" and this email > from Tom, the one I was replying to: I read all the emails, and I know exactly what I am referring to; so, there is no discrepancy. ;) I had in mind Segin's initial email (which was sent to the entire list): --- Segin <segin2005(a)gmail.com> wrote: > There is one reason, inarguable (if you reply to > this you have a IQ of > 0) as to why WineTools is useless: Most of the > WineTools 'magic' is in > it's ~/.wine/config file, which Wine no longer > uses/acknoleges, thefore, > WineTools is utterly useless and has no point in > existing AT ALL, PERIOD. To which I responded: > Dude, you need a bit more constructive in your > comments, or you'll be getting a lot of resentment on > this list REAL fast. Per your comment "What he said on the list seemed pretty reasonable to me.", if you don't see anything wrong with what Segin said, then so be it. Others, meanwhile, have recognized his misplaced behavior. Cheers, Hiji

March 30, 2006

Re: OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

by Chris Morgan

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 7:31 pm, Hiji wrote: > > How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to > > wine-devel? How do we choose who gets to email people directly and > > who doesn't? How do we filter the contents of their email? > > I want to chime in and say that I'm with Tom and the ole Doc here. I don't > think there's any way to filter somebody's contents, but I think it's > important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line. > Perhaps you didn't actually read the emails that were sent. This might explain the discrepancy between your comment about "thinking its important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line" and this email from Tom, the one I was replying to: > From: > "Tom Spear" <speeddymon(a)gmail.com> > To: > "Wine Developers List" <wine-devel(a)winehq.com> > Date: > Today 5:12:33 pm > >Totally agreed. Segin > needs to be not just kick/banned from the list, he needs to be K-Lined, if > not G-Lined from all things wine! With respect to his comments though, on > behalf of everyone involved with the project, and with the community as a > whole, I sincerely apologize. Sounds to me like this is advocating censorship. > I know I was the first to respond to Sergin's email by asking that he be > more constructive in his feedback, but past that, none of the regulars on > this thread said much. Now, his thread has spawned into something that is > soooo far out there that it almost has no relevancy to this list. I want > to note that I don't see how Sergin's comments and behavior could have been > interpreted as anything but inappropriate; however, with the majority of > people not saying anything, I can only imagine that Sergin felt that what > he did was perfectly okay and acceptable on this list. > What he said on the list seemed pretty reasonable to me. Note that in the headers forwarded by Dr J A Gow the email from Segin appears to be directly from him and not to the list at all. It isn't our place to even care what Segin emails to people, as long as he isn't abusing the mailing list to do so. Chris

March 30, 2006

Interesting D3D testapp

by Willie Sippel

Hi there. I think I just found a very nice D3D testapp: fr-025 by Farbrausch. A nice, small (8.2MB) graphics demo, already works somewhat with Wine (starts, plays, music and everything works, good performance), but lots and lots of effects are simply missing or wrong. It does quite a bit interesting stuff wined3d doesn't seem to handle: strange viewport handling, glow, blending, reflections, blur(?). So many unimplemented features I won't even dare to file bugreports for every single one... :) It's the all-time most popular demo on pouet.net (obviously, given it's called "fr-025 - the.popular.demo" ;) ) You can get it at: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=9450 -- Willie Sippel //////// | Tritium Studios // | ______________________________ //// /// | http://www.tritium-studios.com <willie(a)froq.net>

March 30, 2006