May 2006 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: Wine 1.0 Tasks

by Dan Kegel

On 5/29/06, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote: > I'd like one goal of 1.0 to be "make Windows developers take Wine seriously." > To achieve that, I think 1.0 has to support at least some Microsoft development > tools well, including their IDEs and debuggers. It's probably unreasonable to > require 1.0 to support .NET, so maybe supporting the last pre-.NET versions of > Visual C++ (6.2?) and Visual Basic (6.0?) would be a good goal. In support of the idea that people will dismiss Wine until it can run the VB IDE, here are a couple references on the web: http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=trying_out_picassa_for_linux "... they will continue to dismiss the Linux platform as being no good for programming until it hosts Microsoft Visual Basic." http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11246.html "Using Wine/CrossOver Office was an attractive option, but in a lot of ways it didn't solve the problem for the long term. Yes, I could get the application as it was compiled to run on Linux, most likely. But I had concerns about how to handle any fixes that might be required in the future. I would still need to have a Windows desktop to run the Visual Basic development environment." These are only two voices, but I bet they speak for a lot of people. - Dan -- Wine for Windows ISVs: http://kegel.com/wine/isv

May 30, 2006

Re: World of Warcraft (WoW) patch/more address space layout stuff

by Mike Hearn

> Interesting.. if MacOSX has a similar memory layout as linux, maybe we > could get Blizzard to include a workaround that is only active when it > sees that it's running under wine/cedega. Well if you can get the email address of a WoW developer then maybe we can track down where the problem in WoW is and work with them to fix it. I don't think Wine-specific workarounds make any sense: the address space layout when not requesting a specific address is not guaranteed. Vista already includes ASLR which is likely to break such software. It will need to be fixed sooner or later, might as well be sooner :) thanks -mike

May 30, 2006

Re: World of Warcraft (WoW) patch/more address space layout stuff

by Mike Hearn

On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:08:42 +0200, Tomas Carnecky wrote: > Since WoW also runs on MacOSX, how does the memory layout on MacOSX > differ from NT and Linux? I have no idea, but the MacOS and Windows versions of WoW will be different; probably the bug is only in the Windows specific parts of the code. > Maybe that's the reason why they won't do a > Linux port: because they rely on a certain memory layout and the code > can't be changed that easily. I suspect the real reason is the usual one: concern over profitability. They'd need to have a full time Linux dev team as well, because the code constantly evolves. The problems Second Life is having shows what happens when you don't do that :/ thanks -mike

May 30, 2006

Re: Wine 1.0 Tasks

by Mike Hearn

On Tue, 30 May 2006 07:14:07 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote: > Go ahead and retarget those to 1.0, then, please. OK. I need to talk to Tony, I seem to have lost my bugzilla privs at some point (probably changing email address). > I agree that Sun's Java runtime is probably something we should support for 1.0. > But Java isn't "just fine" under Wine; I've run into installers that > fail because they crash inside Sun's JVM on Wine. That sucks :( A few years ago I was running pretty complex Swing apps on it. I wonder if it's regressed or if those are bugs I just never hit. > If someone wants to start putting effort into getting .NET, or for that > matter Mono, up and running, great. But personally, I'd be just fine > with making .NET support a 1.1 feature. - Dan Yes, OK. What's the use case for running VS on Linux; is the idea that as developers migrate they can continue working on their old software? Or that they can use these tools to write new software that targets Win32? thanks -mike

May 30, 2006

Re: comctl32_tests: Janitorial: write-strings warning fix

by Francois Gouget

On Sun, 28 May 2006, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: > Sunday, May 28, 2006, 12:19:30 PM, Andrew Talbot wrote: >> On reflection, I think I need to look at constifying the structure members, >> where possible, rather than unconstifying the values that are fed to them. > > Exactly. Except that's the part that we can't do nothing about - that's the > way they are in SDK. Except the latest versions of the SDK, the Vista one in particular, have improved const-correctness, so it could be worth checking whether they changes the struct declaration on a case by case basis. -- Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> http://fgouget.free.fr/ Dieu dit: "M-x Lumière". Et la lumière fut.

May 30, 2006

Re: World of Warcraft (WoW) patch/more address space layout stuff

by Tomas Carnecky

fenix(a)club-internet.fr wrote: > No, they have added this regressions after a little patch-set. > So they can fix it. > And as we can't download a playable demo ... > Interesting.. if MacOSX has a similar memory layout as linux, maybe we could get Blizzard to include a workaround that is only active when it sees that it's running under wine/cedega. tom

May 30, 2006

Re: Set up wine-macosx? (Re: How are we doing?)

by Mike Hearn

On Mon, 29 May 2006 23:47:26 -0700, Jim White wrote: > But I do know I set up Darwine because of the antagonistic > and dismissive tone here when I tried to discuss Darwin & Mac OS X > development ideas. I have yet to see anybody give Emmanuel and the other Darwine developers anything but respect. The "dismissive tone" you received are because you are not a developer and like most open source projects, Wine has a simple currency -> those who do the work get the respect. Tell people they should work on a port to a platform they don't use and you'll be told to do the work yourself. Dismissive? Maybe. Unexpected? I'd hope not. > Darwine is a "private community"? "Second-class citizen in the Wine > world"? Uh, yeah. I'm really feeling the love here. You've misinterpreted a statement of fact as some kind of insult. Work that doesn't take place on wine-devel is invisible to most Wine developers, it's as simple as that. > Oh, wait. The award *did* get mentioned in Wine Weekly issue #311. > Hmmm, except that not only is Darwine not in the subject line, it isn't > mentioned at all. There is some whining that Wine didn't win though. > Thanks guys. Look, there are various reasons why some developers - and it seems maybe Marcus is in that group - are uncertain as to whether a Mac port is a good thing. This has been explained to you before. So why do you act shocked when an individual is "unsure whether to be happy or sad" over the news? > Lest you think I'm complaining here, I'm not. You clearly are complaining, there's no other way to describe it. -mike

May 30, 2006

Re: Re: Wine 1.0 Tasks

by Huw Davies

On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 04:11:41PM +0200, fenix(a)club-internet.fr wrote: > >The OpenGL child window bug, > >http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2398 > >probably won't be fixed for 1.0 because it requires > >an X server change. > > No it must be doable without X changes > (But X additions as GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap will help a lot). How does this help? Thanks, Huw. -- Huw Davies huw(a)codeweavers.com

May 30, 2006

Re: Re: Wine 1.0 Tasks

by Dan Kegel

On 5/30/06, fenix(a)club-internet.fr <fenix(a)club-internet.fr> wrote: > >The OpenGL child window bug, > >http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2398 > >probably won't be fixed for 1.0 because it requires > >an X server change. > > No it must be doable without X changes It might be, but the heavy hitters I know of who have taken a look at it in detail have concluded that an X change really is needed. > (But X additions as GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap will help a lot). > Only problem is to find time to fix it (as lionel, i have no time for now). > Anyway i having a simple and downloadable application to reproduce this problem (not lightwave) must help. There are already simple test apps linked to from http://wiki.winehq.org/OpenGL > The only parts who really needs X change are for: > - glShareList: sharing fb/visual config between exitings GLX contexts > - dinput mouse management Are those 1.0 blockers? - Dan

May 30, 2006

Re: Re: World of Warcraft (WoW) patch/more address space layout stuff

by fenix＠club-internet.fr

----Message d'origine---- >Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:08:42 +0200 >De: Tomas Carnecky <tom(a)dbservice.com> >A: Mike Hearn <mike(a)plan99.net> >Copie à: wine-devel(a)winehq.com, n0dalus <n0dalus(a)gmail.com> >Sujet: Re: World of Warcraft (WoW) patch/more address space layout stuff > >Mike Hearn wrote: >> It's a bug in WoW itself, it relies upon the exact way NT maps memory >> which is different to how Linux does it. I guess they are storing >> information in the high bits of a pointer somewhere or some similar >> trick. >> > >Since WoW also runs on MacOSX, how does the memory layout on MacOSX >differ from NT and Linux? Maybe that's the reason why they won't do a >Linux port: because they rely on a certain memory layout and the code >can't be changed that easily. No, they have added this regressions after a little patch-set. So they can fix it. And as we can't download a playable demo ... Regards, Raphael

May 30, 2006