August 2007 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: Legal issues for contribution code into Wine

by James Keane

I think it is safe to avoid working on parts of wine that are directly involved with the source code you have seen. You are probably talking about the windows 2000 winsock source code that was leaked a while ago, right? If so I believe it would be safe for you to contribute to other parts of wine. You should also probably not have any trace of windows source code on your machine while developing for wine, but unless you are a microsoft employee you shouldn't have it anyways. I am not a lawyer nor do I have any tenure with wine, so I could be wrong. On 8/16/07, Dmitry Morovkov <dmorovkov(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > I'm a (mostly windows, but with some linux skills) programmer from russia > who is interested in helping developing Wine, but due to all the mess I read > about the legal issues I want to ask first. > > What is Wine's position regarding people who had seen the windows source > code? I tried to search for this topic, and, found this: > http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Reading-Non_002dFree-Code.html > > After reading this, it looks like it's ok if someone have seen the windows > source code, and provided he is not going to directly copy unmodified source > code (what a stupid idea!), nor refer to it, he would be considered as a > good/trusted person? > > Please clarify this to me. > > > Regards, > Dmitry Morovkov. > > >

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: secur32: add stub for LsaLookupAuthenticationPackage

by Kai Blin

On Thursday 16 August 2007 21:52:01 Louis. Lenders wrote: > Hi, this fixes a crash in TrueImage installer (bug > http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3572) Personally I'd prefer if the LSA functions could go into a seperate source file. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton.

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: Issue(s) when running winetest on Windows

by Jakob Eriksson

Alexandre Julliard wrote: > Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >> Anyone? >> >> This is getting pretty serious now as several test reports that are >> submitted will never be processed. I could of course try and fix this >> in the parser but I do want to know what the issue is. The strange >> thing is that it only happens in the msvcrt test (maybe because it's >> file related). >> > > The only way is for the parent to wait for the child processes to > terminate, by waiting on the process handles. > > By the way. I also noticed that Windows 95 actually bluescreens on rpcrt4 tests. regards, Jakob

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: #winehq admin abuse

by Kai Blin

On Thursday 16 August 2007 20:27:04 Jonathan Challinger wrote: Jonathan, without wanting to give the impression that you posted on this list and now everybody is ganging up on you, I do have a couple of comments here. > Jan Zerebecki, I'd be happy to help, but how? I could develop some > guidelines and rules for admins to follow, but then what? How would they be > enforced? I have no authority to put such things in place. Its not the > writing rules that's hard, its the enforcing them. Here: i'll write them > now: > Either participate politely or don't participate at all > Break up flamewars, don't start them. I completely agree for mailing lists. But this doesn't really map well to IRC. Communication is much less precise and faster in chat. I don't have a good solution. Does someone have a good set of explicit rules that work for IRC? > There needs to be some kind of structure, though. Presumably, unless he's > the project leader, there's someone who can take away his admin privileges. > There should be guidelines for how admins behave, and admins who don't > behave according to said guidelines should have their admin privileges > suspended or removed. That's not the way it works, though. There need to be people willing to do this job. If you have a large number to pick from, you can be picky. Vitaliy devotes a lot of time to helping people in #winehq, even though I agree he is a bit rude from time to time. Still, you will find that he's really helpful if you ask "smart questions", as esr defines them. > > Tom Wickline, I am Pie-rate, not carretto. I still don't agree with how he > handled carretto. Maybe the community should try appointing admins based on > people skills, not coding skills? Agreed. Ideally the developers should do as little user support as possible to be able to spend more time developing. However, most wine users only come into #winehq to bitch about some programs not working and to ask for help. Again, if more people in there were actually active helping people, someone would have said something else than "oh well", and don't tell me you'd just have ignored the "oh well" in that case. Of course building a good community is important, and I think your email scratches the surface of the problem Wine as a project has with it's community. But that's material for a different thread. > The problem here is I asked a question in a help channel, not to him > specifically, but he answered it just to state that he doesn't care. He > then banned me for voicing concern over whether he should be doing such > things. Ok, if you don't mind I'll dissect the question a little. [some formatting added for better readability] <Pie-rate>: my brother's girlfriend's WoW install is crashing (locking up, stops responding) randomly. Here, you describe the problem you're seeing. So far, so good. <Pie-rate>: she will install windows tomorrow if it doesn't get fixed. i don't like windows and i don't want to deal with it. Here, you're trying to to stress how important your problem is. While this might be important for you, it is not for me, and I doubt it is for lots of other Wine developers. I don't work on Wine because I want to make more people switch to Linux. I stopped caring what operating system people use about six years ago, as long as they don't mind what OS I use. Frankly, I started working on Wine because I was paid to work on it, and while I'm not paid anymore, I like the challenge of working on problems like figuring out how Windows ticks and to make Wine tick the same way. But back to the analysis. <Pie-rate>: the message it crashes with is: err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying (60 sec) This is not really helpful, but arguably that's a bit hard to tell without knowing Wine. So I'd say this one is fine. <Pie-rate>: this is with an install copied over from my computer, which i KNOW works flawlessly, and wine 0.9.41 If I'd do that on Windows, it'd break for a lot of apps. Why people think Wine is different is beyond me. As Juan said in his email. the FAQ clearly states not to do that. > Civility is important to a degree in the freenode channels, but swearing > like a sailor while banning people who complain about it is just > ridiculous. As an admin, you should be helping politely or not helping at > all, and breaking up flamewars, not starting them. I still fail to see how this is connected to being an op or not. This should be a general rule. Anyway, looking at my experience with Open Source help channels, you're basically always expected to have read the FAQ before asking questions if you want someone to help you. You actually didn't ask a question and you stated that you hadn't read the FAQ. So I think an "oh well" response, while certainly not ideal, was well justified. I agree with you that banning people who disagree is bad style. Personally, I'd probably just ignore the whole thing. But starting the conversation in a "I'm a paying customer, and if people don't do what I want, I'll spend my money elsewhere" style message certainly doesn't help. We do get that a lot, and having done support in a volunteer organization myself, I know this gets on your nerves quite quickly. Anyway, I don't want to single you out for being the bad guy, I just wanted to explain a little why the echo you got here was the way it is. Oh, one other thing. It's a bit rude to take a personal email back to a public list without consent of the poster, especially if the poster stated that he didn't want the email to go to said list. Also, top-posting is against common mailing list etiquette. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton.

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: #winehq admin abuse

by Jesse Allen

> That's like inviting people to an installfest, > and then when they ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL" > and spitting in their faces." I think I can explain my thinking plainer: One person tells another, "I need a dollar to buy a candy bar", You don't have a dollar, or not interested, they say "oh well, tough" A logical way to solve the problem is A) ask some one else for a dollar B) work and earn a dollar Both are acceptable. In your case, you pick A) because you aren't a developer. Well there are other people that can help you, and other forums. But when a person refuses to help, are they spitting on you? Really... Jesse

Aug. 16, 2007

Legal issues for contribution code into Wine

by Dmitry Morovkov

Hello, I'm a (mostly windows, but with some linux skills) programmer from russia who is interested in helping developing Wine, but due to all the mess I read about the legal issues I want to ask first. What is Wine's position regarding people who had seen the windows source code? I tried to search for this topic, and, found this: http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Reading-Non_002dFree-Code.html After reading this, it looks like it's ok if someone have seen the windows source code, and provided he is not going to directly copy unmodified source code (what a stupid idea!), nor refer to it, he would be considered as a good/trusted person? Please clarify this to me. Regards, Dmitry Morovkov.

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: #winehq admin abuse

by Jesse Allen

On 8/15/07, Jonathan Challinger <mr.challinger(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Below is a log of #winehq, from 9:44 to 10:09 on Wednesday August 15th: > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: my brother's girlfriend's WoW install is > crashing (locking up, stops responding) randomly. she will install > windows tomorrow if it doesn't get fixed. i don't like windows and i > don't want to deal with it. the message it crashes with is: > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section > 0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying > (60 sec) > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: this is with an install copied over from my > computer, which i KNOW works flawlessly, and wine 0.9.41 First of all, you posed your comments without directly asking for help. Second, what you stated is good as useless to solving the problem as far as wine is concerned. I've seen plenty of non-wine support requests in the past saying "my computer don't work! it needs to be fixed!" Well what is it really that doesn't work? That needs to be explained. All the error message you wrote "err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying (60 sec)" effectively means is that the app is hung -- same thing. Pretty non-descript. Doesn't describe the root of the problem. As for the rest of the description, you clearly state that the game works on another system. This more likely means that Wine is not at fault here (if indeed same version), and could be that your system configuration, drivers, or hardware is at fault. You need to compare the two systems and narrow down the problem. I recommend that is what you should do. I'm not interested in stepping you through it as there is no magic solution. Vitamin was obviously disinterested too. > (09:57:50 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: Read the topic. "End user/tech support > channel for Wine." A derogatory-sounding "oh well" is nothing more than > flamebait. Either say nothing, or help. That's what I try to do, and > that's what's in the best interest of the project. I believe you are a > channel admin, correct? Saying "oh well," without even trying to help is > rude, but saying "oh well" without even trying to help, as a channel > admin? That's like inviting people to an installfest, and then when they > ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL" and spitting in their > faces. This and the especially the last sentence is clearly a provocation. You're effectively saying vitamin spits on people. No wonder he blew up after that. And this comment: > (09:59:55 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: bit testy, today? You were just asking to get banned, which you were then. There was no longer a point on being there if you were going to talk about him and not wine. So was he mean for doing that? Sure. But do you claim you weren't mean? After all he was only there to try to help. Having someone be considerate to you starts with you. Lets go to the install-fest example. Do the helpers know every solution? Why would they begin to help you if they don't? "Oh well" is more like, "I can't help you", not the to the extreme, "spitting on someone". As I already told you, there is no easy way of fixing your problem. IMO you were rude to vitamin. Jesse

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: #winehq admin abuse

by Jonathan Challinger

Jan Zerebecki, I'd be happy to help, but how? I could develop some guidelines and rules for admins to follow, but then what? How would they be enforced? I have no authority to put such things in place. Its not the writing rules that's hard, its the enforcing them. Here: i'll write them now: Either participate politely or don't participate at all Break up flamewars, don't start them. James Keane, "oh well" is a valid answer to my question that would have solved my problem? I think you're getting mixed up between caretto and I. "He is not our employee we can not reprimand him for his actions and neither can you." There needs to be some kind of structure, though. Presumably, unless he's the project leader, there's someone who can take away his admin privileges. There should be guidelines for how admins behave, and admins who don't behave according to said guidelines should have their admin privileges suspended or removed. Abel Chiaro, he said "I don't f*** care where you download the file to caretto, not me. Tom Wickline, I am Pie-rate, not carretto. I still don't agree with how he handled carretto. Maybe the community should try appointing admins based on people skills, not coding skills? The problem here is I asked a question in a help channel, not to him specifically, but he answered it just to state that he doesn't care. He then banned me for voicing concern over whether he should be doing such things. Juan, I think I sent my previous message to you instead of the list. Sorry for sending it to you twice. Ok, no one really got the message here. I guess it really wasn't clear, and that's my fault. I am Pie-rate. The comment about windows was probably offtopic, but its not nearly as ridiculous as vitamin cussing out both caretto and I, and banning me for voicing concern over the fact that an admin is doing such things. vitamin: carretto, I do not f*** care where you download the file. vitamin: Pie-rate, STFU if you have nothing to say Ok, the swearing is really not that bad. I don't really care if someone swears at me. What really gets me angry is that vitamin *banned* me for voicing a perfectly valid point, when vitamin answered a question with "oh well," without trying to help, and before anyone else tried to help. As I said, this would be rude if he was some random guy, but he's an admin. As I said before, this is like inviting someone to an installfest, and then spitting in their face and saying "STFU RTFM GO AWAY AND GOOGLE." All it does is makes people distance themselves from OSS as far as possible. "This is an invitation to flame if ever I saw one, and if civility flies out the window, it begins here." No, civility flies out the window HERE: (09:44:34 PM) vitamin: Pie-rate, oh well and HERE: vitamin: carretto, I do not f*** care where you download Civility is important to a degree in the freenode channels, but swearing like a sailor while banning people who complain about it is just ridiculous. As an admin, you should be helping politely or not helping at all, and breaking up flamewars, not starting them. As for the fix to my problem, that's completely beside the point now. I hope that clears some things up. On 8/16/07, Juan Lang < juan.lang(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Jonathan, I'm changing forums here, as I don't agree that > wine-devel is the appropriate place for it. I'm cc'ing vitamin, since > he's being discussed. > > I'm also breaking a rule against top-posting, since I want to state my > position up front: I agree that civility is important. I also agree > that vitamin sometimes lacks tact. So let's look at the post a little > bit: > > On 8/15/07, Jonathan Challinger <mr.challinger(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Below is a log of #winehq, from 9:44 to 10:09 on Wednesday August 15th: > > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: my brother's girlfriend's WoW install is > > crashing (locking up, stops responding) randomly. she will install > > windows tomorrow if it doesn't get fixed. i don't like windows and i > > don't want to deal with it. > > I'm sorry, but this bit about Windows is completely off-topic. > > > the message it crashes with is: > > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section > > 0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying > > (60 sec) > > Okay, that's a real problem. Now we're getting somewhere, though it's > hard to diagnose. > > > (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: this is with an install copied over from my > > computer, which i KNOW works flawlessly, and wine 0.9.41 > > Now we have a problem. Installing apps into Wine is the only > supported configuration. Copying over installations isn't supported, > and this is well documented (see the FAQ in the wiki: > http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-3647fcb12328bf8f43d7cfce4d0dcbcee12c0541 > ) > > I know this is no consolation, but we often see requests from people > who don't follow the instructions, and that tries our patience. It's > been said over and over again, but since not everyone is getting > message, I'll say it again: > 1. Don't copy programs from a Windows install. > 2. Don't use winetools or ies4linux or anything else that installs a > bunch of Microsoft DLLs. > > If you do, we can't (won't) help you, as the problem may or may not be > with Wine. > > > (09:43:54 PM) carretto: vitamin: what? > > (09:44:10 PM) carretto: vitamin: _period? > > (09:44:15 PM) vitamin: <vitamin> carretto, you have to install the game > > on Wine > > Vitamin makes this point again here. Since it has been well > documented, I think he shows civility by not flaming about it. > > > (09:44:34 PM) vitamin: Pie-rate, oh well > > (09:44:43 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: "oh well?" > > (09:44:46 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: no magic fix? > > (09:44:55 PM) carretto: vitamin: wine <game install>? > > (09:45:11 PM) vitamin: carretto, something like that > > Again, this seems civil to me. "Oh well" is not particularly clear, > but Pie-rate (sorry, I can't tell who's who) clears it up just fine, I > think. > > > (09:45:33 PM) otaku [n=otaku(a)c-24-15-187-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net ] > > entered the room. > > (09:46:53 PM) carretto: vitamin: wine: Call from 0x40136e to > > unimplemented function MFC42.DLL.6929, aborting > > (09:47:10 PM) vitamin: carretto, get the newer version of that dll > > (09:49:56 PM) carretto: vitamin: i donwload MFC42.dll on dll.files and > > past to wine system folder > > (09:50:04 PM) vitamin: carretto, get the newer version of that dll > > (09:50:14 PM) carretto: here i get the newer version? > > (09:50:21 PM) vitamin: from windows > > Again, all perfectly civil, and correct. Since mfc42 is not part of > Wine, an application calling into a missing function in it is a > symptom of a problem with the installation, not with Wine. > > > (09:50:50 PM) carretto: vitamin: i download version v. 4.21.71 > > (09:51:32 PM) shingo2 [n=shingo(a)p5487EFF1.dip.t-dialin.net] entered the > > room. > > (09:52:27 PM) carretto: vitamin: where i get the new version? > > (09:54:48 PM) prgrmr [n=prgrmr(a)bzq-88-154-138-152.red.bezeqint.net] > > entered the room. > > (09:55:37 PM) _3 [n=lol(a)89-178-108-192.broadband.corbina.ru] entered the > > room. > > (09:57:20 PM) carretto: vitamin: can help me? > > (09:57:38 PM) vitamin: carretto, I already answered all your questions > > Again, civil and true. > > > (09:57:50 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: Read the topic. "End user/tech support > > channel for Wine." A derogatory-sounding "oh well" is nothing more than > > flamebait. Either say nothing, or help. That's what I try to do, and > > that's what's in the best interest of the project. I believe you are a > > channel admin, correct? Saying "oh well," without even trying to help is > > rude, but saying "oh well" without even trying to help, as a channel > > admin? That's like inviting people to an installfest, and then when they > > ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL" and spitting in their > > faces. > > At this point, I think Pie-rate loses it. This is an invitation to > flame if ever I saw one, and if civility flies out the window, it > begins here. > > Regarding whether Vitamin acts appropriately as a channel admin: > there are two issues here. First, do channel admins have the > responsibility to maintain civility? Second, do channel admins in > #winehq have the responsibility to help people with wine? > > In my opinion, the answer to the first is yes, channel admins do have > that responsibility. If people are flaming, a channel admin can try > to tone things down a bit before tempers flare. vitamin did an > admirable job being patient, I think, if he lost his patience at the > end. Frankly, I would have too. > > The answer to the second question is a resounding no. In fact, I, a > longtime Wine developer (and channel admin), am often less qualified > to help people with their programs than other users are. I prefer to > let the community help itself out, and when I do jump in irc - > admittedly more and more seldom these days - I rarely have an answer > before someone else does. > > Basically, I think civility may have been lost a little bit in this > exchange, but it didn't begin with vitamin. I also think your > expectations for support are quite high! > > Anyway, if you are Pie-rate, best of luck with your girlfriend's > computer. Cheers, > --Juan

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: Issue(s) when running winetest on Windows

by Alexandre Julliard

Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> writes: > Anyone? > > This is getting pretty serious now as several test reports that are > submitted will never be processed. I could of course try and fix this > in the parser but I do want to know what the issue is. The strange > thing is that it only happens in the msvcrt test (maybe because it's > file related). The only way is for the parent to wait for the child processes to terminate, by waiting on the process handles. -- Alexandre Julliard julliard(a)winehq.org

Aug. 16, 2007

Re: Issue(s) when running winetest on Windows

by Paul Vriens

Kirill K. Smirnov wrote: >> file: 2 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. >> file: 373 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. > > These lines are displayed via printf (include/wine/test.h: 391). > >> msvcrt:file done (0) > > And this via xprintf (programs/winetest/main.c: 420), which is wrapper over > write syscall. > > If you need these line be output in appropriate way, try to add fflush(stdout) > in proper place (into run_test function in include/wine/test.h, I suppose). > > -- > Kirill > Hi, finally got around checking this again. The fflush doesn't make a difference, I still get: file: 3 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. file: 1 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. file: 2 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. file: 373 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. msvcrt:file done (0) msvcrt:headers start dlls/msvcrt/tests/headers.c d7c7cd7f0c file: 2 tests executed (0 marked as todo, 0 failures), 0 skipped. Anyone? This is getting pretty serious now as several test reports that are submitted will never be processed. I could of course try and fix this in the parser but I do want to know what the issue is. The strange thing is that it only happens in the msvcrt test (maybe because it's file related). Cheers, Paul.

Aug. 16, 2007