February 2009 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by Chris Howe

It would seem to me that the right place for this to go would be not in Wine itself but in the likes of Crossover and Cedega - the "distributions" and value added apps built around Wine. I can't reconcile in my head the case where you have a newbie running the latest GIT of Wine needing this kind of thing at all. Either they want the power and compatibility of the latest GIT version, and all that that entails, including the potential for doing things they didn't intend if they run it as root, or they want some newbie friendly environment that seizes back the reins a little and stops them doing that. The very most you need there is some kind of a hook, if that. -- Chris

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by James Mckenzie

Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote: >Sent: Feb 9, 2009 7:53 AM >To: James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>, wine-devel(a)winehq.org >Subject: Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend) > >James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> writes: > >> New wine installation: >> >> su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) >> wine notepad >> install various programs and use them. >> exit > >This shouldn't hurt anything. Please specify the exact platform and show >us the exact commands you are using, or better file a bug with that >info. > It does not hurt anything but Wine's reputation. I don't know, but the phrase "I would rather be run over rather than run down" does apply here. In other words, we should be getting positive responses to user experiences, rather than dealing with newbies having to delete their .wine directories because they ran Wine as root without setting to the root environment. Fortunately, I run a Mac and running as root is disabled and it is a lengthy process to enable that user, which I did to attempt to get around a problem that running as root did not fix. I agree that user education is key, educating some folks is hard. James McKenzie

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by David Gerard

2009/2/9 Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org>: > James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> writes: >> New wine installation: >> su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) >> wine notepad >> install various programs and use them. >> exit > This shouldn't hurt anything. Please specify the exact platform and show > us the exact commands you are using, or better file a bug with that > info. Bug #66666: users break stuff over and over. I strongly suggest you read this stuff on the user forum for an idea of what we're talking about. Users are ... creative. - d.

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by James Mckenzie

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Sent: Feb 9, 2009 7:45 AM >To: wine-devel(a)winehq.org >Subject: Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend) > >2009/2/9 James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net>: > >> Thus, the need for the warning. Experts tend to know what they are doing, newbies don't for the >>most part. And yes, I borked many a system as a newbie and as an expert (building kernels for >>RedHat/Fedora for my Thinkpad. > > >Yep. The problem is that newbies are coming from Windows - (a) where >the answer to inability to do something is to try again as >administrator (b) which sometimes takes precautions to keep you from >shooting your foot off. Which is why most establishments have disabled users from having access to Administrator level functions. > >Solutions: > >1. Get better newbies. (Strikes me as unlikely.) I agree and the situation is getting worse rather than better. We have to be able to gently guide newbies from causing harm to themselves. Sort of like handing a new soldier an unloaded weapon and telling them it is. This is what the warning should do. If a newbie carries on, then they 'have been warned' and they cannot blame Wine for causing harm to their system. >2. Something to help stop them shooting their foot off that won't >hamper those who really want to do this. > Again, the one-time warning should suffice. This can set a Registry value so the warning will not display again in that WINEPREFIX. Experts will just ignore the message whereas newbies might just heed it and stop. Then again, some won't. James McKenzie

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by Alexandre Julliard

James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> writes: > New wine installation: > > su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) > wine notepad > install various programs and use them. > exit This shouldn't hurt anything. Please specify the exact platform and show us the exact commands you are using, or better file a bug with that info. -- Alexandre Julliard julliard(a)winehq.org

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by David Gerard

2009/2/9 James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net>: > Thus, the need for the warning. Experts tend to know what they are doing, newbies don't for the most part. And yes, I borked many a system as a newbie and as an expert (building kernels for RedHat/Fedora for my Thinkpad. Yep. The problem is that newbies are coming from Windows - (a) where the answer to inability to do something is to try again as administrator (b) which sometimes takes precautions to keep you from shooting your foot off. Solutions: 1. Get better newbies. (Strikes me as unlikely.) 2. Something to help stop them shooting their foot off that won't hamper those who really want to do this. - d.

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by Aurimas Fišeras

James Mckenzie wrote: > Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote: >[...] > New wine installation: > > su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) > wine notepad > install various programs and use them. > exit > > User logs in a second time after learning how to properly use Wine. > Attempt to do anything with Wine in user space. Cannot do due to permissions problems. > > The solution: > > sudo rm -rf .wine No, the solution is sudo chown -R user:user .wine

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by Michael Stefaniuc

James Mckenzie wrote: > Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote: >> Sent: Feb 9, 2009 7:26 AM >> To: James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> >> Cc: Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>, wine-devel(a)winehq.org >> Subject: Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend) >> >> James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> writes: >> >>> Second, the problem is that newbies, figuring that their favorite >>> program will not run as an ordinary user, gets a wiff that root has >>> more privileges, will attempt run as root totally hosing their Wine >>> directory. This then starts the 'you should not run Wine as root' >>> mantra on Wine-Users. This then causes the newbie to question why did >>> I go to Linux/Wine when I had a perfectly running Windows system? >> Please explain how running as root will screw their Wine directory. If >> that's really true, surely it should be fixed instead of simply throwing >> out a warning and proceeding. > > New wine installation: > > su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) > wine notepad > install various programs and use them. > exit > > User logs in a second time after learning how to properly use Wine. > Attempt to do anything with Wine in user space. Cannot do due to permissions problems. > > The solution: > > sudo rm -rf .wine Solution is sudo chmod -R $username.$groupname .wine > User now upset because everything they did is gone. Not if you do it right. > > Yes, there are legit reasons to run as root, one of them is the now famous ICMP 'Ping' unavailability issue in Linux. Experts know about this and how to work around it. Newbies, used to Windows and how it works, just figure that this is restricted to administrators, and switch to root to get around it. The proper command, as I have learned through years of UNIX administration, is 'su -' but newbies don't know this and most just use 'su'. > > Thus, the need for the warning. Experts tend to know what they are doing, newbies don't for the most part. And yes, I borked many a system as a newbie and as an expert (building kernels for RedHat/Fedora for my Thinkpad. bye michael

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend)

by James Mckenzie

Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote: >Sent: Feb 9, 2009 7:26 AM >To: James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>, wine-devel(a)winehq.org >Subject: Re: ntdll: add a warning about running wine as root (resend) > >James Mckenzie <jjmckenzie51(a)earthlink.net> writes: > >> Second, the problem is that newbies, figuring that their favorite >> program will not run as an ordinary user, gets a wiff that root has >> more privileges, will attempt run as root totally hosing their Wine >> directory. This then starts the 'you should not run Wine as root' >> mantra on Wine-Users. This then causes the newbie to question why did >> I go to Linux/Wine when I had a perfectly running Windows system? > >Please explain how running as root will screw their Wine directory. If >that's really true, surely it should be fixed instead of simply throwing >out a warning and proceeding. New wine installation: su (no dash so root's environment is not picked up) wine notepad install various programs and use them. exit User logs in a second time after learning how to properly use Wine. Attempt to do anything with Wine in user space. Cannot do due to permissions problems. The solution: sudo rm -rf .wine User now upset because everything they did is gone. Yes, there are legit reasons to run as root, one of them is the now famous ICMP 'Ping' unavailability issue in Linux. Experts know about this and how to work around it. Newbies, used to Windows and how it works, just figure that this is restricted to administrators, and switch to root to get around it. The proper command, as I have learned through years of UNIX administration, is 'su -' but newbies don't know this and most just use 'su'. Thus, the need for the warning. Experts tend to know what they are doing, newbies don't for the most part. And yes, I borked many a system as a newbie and as an expert (building kernels for RedHat/Fedora for my Thinkpad. James McKenzie

Feb. 9, 2009

Re: oleaut32: Fix SAFEARRAY marshalling on 64-bit platforms.

by Alexandre Julliard

Rob Shearman <robertshearman(a)gmail.com> writes: > 2009/2/9 Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org>: >> Rob Shearman <robertshearman(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >>> @@ -874,8 +874,8 @@ unsigned char * WINAPI LPSAFEARRAY_UserMarshal(ULONG *pFlags, unsigned char *Buf >>> >>> *(ULONG *)Buffer = ulCellCount; >>> Buffer += sizeof(ULONG); >>> - *(ULONG_PTR *)Buffer = (ULONG_PTR)psa->pvData; >>> - Buffer += sizeof(ULONG_PTR); >>> + *(ULONG *)Buffer = (ULONG)(ULONG_PTR)psa->pvData; >>> + Buffer += sizeof(ULONG); >> >> Wouldn't this break if the pointer happens to be 4Gb-aligned? > > It would write 0 into memory, yes, but the value written here isn't > used during unmarshalling so it is fine and I believe this matches > what native does. The exact value doesn't matter, but it seems to me that it won't get unmarshaled correctly if the value happens to be 0. Am I missing something? > If we wanted to relax the tests, we could change this to "*(ULONG > *)Buffer = psa->pvData ? 0x2 : 0x0" and check the value during > unmarshalling to be totally correct with the NDR-formatted data that > we are writing. Without relaxing the tests you could still write the pointer and only store 0x2 when you would have stored 0 for a non-null pointer. -- Alexandre Julliard julliard(a)winehq.org

Feb. 9, 2009